Federal Galactic Republic VS Swtor Era Sith Empire
The Federal Galactic Republic yea Galactic Alliance Same thing VS Vitiates Sith empire during the Cold War and great galactic war. the republic in this takes place In 44 ABY (FOTJ) Era.
The Sith Empire has a lot more force users, but the FGR/GA has a stronger military.
Their ships are bigger and stronger, their fighters swifter, tougher, and heavier gunned. The common heavy warships of the GA are twice as big. They even have ship classes that do not exist in TOR time- most notably, Executors and Viscount Star Dreadnaught/Star Defenders, at 17 kilometers long. The biggest Sith Empire ship is 1.6 kilometers long. The Silencer Megalaser on the Doombringer would pretty much ping off the GA flagships with only moderate damage.
And if Vitiate tries a win-by-ritual, Luke and Co are strong enough to both sense and stop it.
Pretty much, the Sith Empire needs to get as many Sith as they can to do as many decapitation strikes as possible (against politicians, Jedi, anything and everything), and *hope* they get past the alliance fleets, because in a war decided by fleets, they are doomed.
The three late-era powers (Galactic Alliance, Krayt Empire, and Galactic Empire under Palpatine) are the three strongest militaries in Star Wars, and it's only due to their raw number of force users that the Sith Empire stands a chance... and even then, it requires on them acting very quickly and decisively and no small bit of luck.
Some points in favor of reconstituted Sith Empire:-
1. Harrower-class dreadnaughts can destroy any other dreadnaught irrespective of era gap. The mightiest of the Harrower-class dreadnaughts can solo whole fleets and worlds by themselves.
2. Dread Masters can destroy whole fleets with their powers
3. Sith Empire developed special factories which could churn out mightiest of its weapons within a span of year each.
NOTE: Emperor's plot to pull off Nathema on galactic scale wasn't known to anybody within Jedi Order, Republic or any other organization. It became known due to defection of Lord Scourge (Emperor's Wrath). So it is illogical to assume that such a well kept secret can be discovered by any outsider, even many individuals within the Empire didn't know about this plan.
Nnnnnno, not sure why this would be the case, military tech does definitely improve, if slowly. Imperial Star Destroyers have all the advantages of a base Harrower, only bigger and more modern. There is the megalaser equipped one (did they ever make more?), but even that, as mentioned, is no match for the gigantic megaships the GA fields like Executors and Viscounts, who have shields and weapons greater than entire fleets.
Also, by later eras? Harrower size ships are just considered 'heavy cruisers'.
This was merely enough to get a stalemate with the Republic of the time, let alone one that dwarfs that one in size and military power.
Their fear-powers can mess up fleets, but they're in one place at a time, and were defeated twice by Jedi. Strategically, they don't prevent the fleets from being destroyed every place they aren't, and they themselves can be taken down.
I'd expect it'd be sensed in the force, but aside from that, how about history books?
Didn't the Book of the Sith mention it? A book known to have fallen into Luke's hands. I'm not completely sure, but if it does, well, that alone.
Firepower is important and Harrower-class dreadnaughts are canonically among the deadliest dreadnaughts ever built.
The mightiest of Harrower-class dreadnaughts could solo entire fleets and even worlds. I don't think any dreadnaught can survive this kind of firepower.
My point is that fleets of reconstituted ancient Sith Empire are capable of inflicting heavy losses on any adversary. I am not claiming that fleets of the former won't suffer losses.
Actually the Empire was winning the war and even invaded and occupied Coruscant itself. However, Revan somehow convinced Emperor to stop the war and sign peace treaty. This treaty lasted a decade and granted Republic and its allies sufficient time to recover, regroup and retaliate in effective manner.
It shall also be kept in mind that Sith Emperor had to contend with a fully prepared Republic and Jedi Order unlike many others who relied on subtlety and schemes to overcome these forces from within. This is why Great Galactic War turned out to be an extremely challenging venture.
Being the deadliest ship ever built only applies until something deadlier came along, though.
Note, the main ships of the line of the Galactic Alliance are not Dreadnaughts. Dreadnaughts in this sense are ships under a kilometer long, and include ships like the CW era Dreadnaught and Harrower. The main ships of the line are Star Destroyer class, a newer, larger, size class for even stronger ships invented later.
And Super Star Destroyers / Star Defenders, are yet another class of ships still, invented thousands of years later.
You could fit, literally, a hundred Harrowers inside the same volume of a single Executor or Viscount. I'm not even exaggerating, it's that big. (4 columns of 25, two columns across, two high. I did the math, there'd be space left over).
They can inflict losses, but they're at a disadvantage against a fleet consisting of "The same thing, only bigger" (ISDs), "Ships capable of going toe-to-toe with the same thing only bigger," (Mon Cal cruisers), and "Flagships that, on their own, outmass more than several fleets of their biggest ships combined," (Executors and Viscounts).
The TOR Empire also have only half the territory.
They're capable of inflicting damage, but they are outmassed and outresources, and the flagships of the GA are, basically, superweapons well beyond those the Sun Razer was making by TOR Sith Empire standards.
You do realize Star Destroyers can destroy worlds, yes? Here, Victory class savaging a world. Victories are on the small, obsolete side of the Galactic Alliance fleet.
There's pleeenty of fleet-killing megaships, as I've mentioned.
Destroying fleets of ships 300 to 600 meters long is not nearly the same thing as destroying fleets of ships usually twice that size.
They were specifically stretched thin and their infrastructure was having trouble keeping up with their conquests, which Dark Councilors like Mehkis noted (Specifically why she started the Sun Razer project, to tip the stalemate in their favor with superweapons). They could occupy Coruscant temporarily, but they were in a bad position to try and hold it, not at that point in time.
They had done well, but their expansion had significantly slowed before the treaty and like the Republic they needed time to catch their breath. Revan helped, and figured it'd help the Republic more (and he was right, due to Sith infighting when not focused outword), but the Empire needed it too.
If I remember right one of the most important superweapons from the Sith Empire only destroyed a City. A Victory class Star destroyer, whether it'd be salvo or for hecks sake per shot, can send huge chunks of the planet's crust all the way into the upper atmosphere. Someone actually calculated that, and you get 462 Petatons of energy. Not to mention Harrowers are yes stated being just cruisers. Soloing worlds and fleets isn't a big deal really, an Imperial SD would just fry crusiers on the fly.
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
I interpret this differently because not every starship have earned this kind of accolade in canon and that harrower-class dreadnaught project revolutionized starship technology for the future and mightiest of them packed sufficient firepower to take on any kind of starships/challenges. Makes sense on the whole.
I fully understand this.
Well, these destroyers are really big but even they can be one-shot by mightiest of harrower-class dreadnaughts. I am not joking. Example provided below.
Yes, but this imbalance can be addressed if reconstituted ancient Sith Empire gets to maximize the production of its greatest weapons.
Coverage isn't important, rather strains the resources. Tactics are important and reconstituted ancient Sith Empire doesn't have shortage of brilliant tacticians.
Reconstituted ancient Sith Empire is capable of producing endless supply of arms (of all kinds) actually.
You are not getting it, I guess.
Of-course, even leviathan was able to destroy Taris in this manner. The difference is in one-shotting an entire fleet and/or even a planet like a Death Star.
Check this example:
(please log in to view the image)
A harrower-class superweapon (Desolator) literally one-shot this entire world and result is in front of you. It can one-shot entire fleets too.
See above, you are clueless about firepower potential of mightiest of harrower-class dreadnaughts. They are mobile superweapons to be precise and nearly approach the potency level of Death Star.
Occupation of such magnitude can indeed stretch resources. But important thing is leaders of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire came up with a solution and this matters.
And no, Coruscant would have been held without issue.
Sith Empire would have won/conquered the Republic and destroyed the Jedi Order if treaty had not been signed. Revan prevented such a fate before it was too late.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 19th, 2014 at 08:26 AM
Umm, A Harrower class did not do that to the planet. That was a special superweapon created by the Republic which later was stolen by the Sith Empire. And I can't believe I jsut read that a Harrower class, which is 4000 years outdated technology, can approach death star levels of power. You do realize an Imperial Star destroyer can also solo fleets and worlds too, right? Going by high end calculations an Imperial Star destroyer with a bombardment can turn a planet into another Mustafar if it wanted to.
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
Also, Star Razers or whatever they're called are pretty worthless factories that are reliant on Stars energies to supply itself. Hypermatter power generation during the OT has gotten so advanced that the Death Stars reactor is equal to the power output of HUNDREDS of super Giant Stars. The Executor class star destroyer has a power output equal to our Sun. The factories of the Galactic Empire are self sustained and can make millions of ships and if they dedicated themselves can pretty much make as much as they want until they go crazy with ships, superweapons, etc. How many Harrower class even existed during the Sith Empire? Because the GE had 25,000 Imperial Star destroyers alone.
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
Yea, they revolutionized technology.... several thousand years before.
WW1 dreadnaughts revolutionized sea warfare, and all the later ships built on it and were better still.
None of their accolades says they're anything like comparable to an ISD, which was made millennia later and is not even in the ship class it's compared to.
Imperial Star Destroyers are literally a later, larger version of the same tech with improvements. There is nothing Harrowers have that ISDs do not.
And there is certainly nothing remotely indicating they'd be able to stand up to 17-kilometer Star Defenders- Harrowers are killed by Hammerhead cruisers!
Yea, that's nothing like a Death Star's destruction, and easily within the capacity of normal fleets.
Also, I believe there were, what, two Megalaser equipped Harrowers? And they're still just as fragile as normal ones.
You're acting as if that's most of them rather than super-rare superweapons.
And yes, Super Star Destroyers and Star Defenders can take that level of firepower. Fleets of ISDs can melt the surface of a planet and still largely ping off SSD shields.
Do not conflate normal Harrowers and the very-few-in-number megalaser wielding ones.
And Death Stars blow planets into chunks. What you have above is what the Imperial Navy of Palpatine's time would call a 'Base Delta Zero' attack, something done with ISDs.
Perhaps eventually. The fact that things were stalling and logistics lines were stretching was explicit, though.
And again, GA >>> Republic they fought.
"They would've eventually beat a foe with a fraction of the power of their foe here," is not a compelling argument.
One major advantage is the GA has hyperdrive equipped fighters.
When a megalaser Harrower comes into a system, they can be countered by jumping in hundreds of fighters.
Spread out, the megalaser cannot hope to hit more than a few of them, and they can easily get out of it's arc faster than it can turn. The Harrower's own fighters are inferior to late-gen X-wings (their fighters are basically less-fast TIEs! No shields) and squadrons of B-Wings can kill capital ships, it is literally what they're designed for.
The Galactic Alliance is descended from a group who specialized in killing things with their advanced fighters.
Thus even the anti-capital ship superweapons have a readily available counter.
Alternate route- if you can manage to get your fleet on both sides, you have a good shot even with normal capital ships. Sure, it can one-shot most ships, but it can't defend both sides at the same time.
And that is just the very very few superweapons, most of their Harrowers are simply outmasses, with all the problems that presents, by their foes.
Apr 19th, 2014 03:46 AM
