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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Qui Gon Jinn vs. Meetra Surik


Qui Gon Jinn vs. Meetra Surik
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carthage
PLEASE PROTECT ME STONES

Registered: Mar 2014
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Qui Gon Jinn vs. Meetra Surik

* KOTOR II version only

*Lightsabers only

Duel takes place in the Jedi temple


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2016 11:51 PM
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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

Surik wins, better physicals, technical mastery, augmentation, precognition, martial arts and experience.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2016 02:02 AM
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Fated Xtasy
Kami

Registered: Mar 2014
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by AncientPower
Surik wins, better physicals, technical mastery, augmentation, precognition, martial arts and experience.


Physical? Like in the sense of what? Having higher stamina or strength?

Technical mastery? Humbling a battlemaster who was considered unparalleled and second makes it seem like he can handle surik in that department.


Martial arts, & precog go to surik.

The rest is pretty arguable.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2016 02:18 AM
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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Physical? Like in the sense of what? Having higher stamina or strength?

Technical mastery? Humbling a battlemaster who was considered unparalleled and second makes it seem like he can handle surik in that department.


Martial arts, & precog go to surik.

The rest is pretty arguable.


She has much higher stamina and durability, comparable speed and has the strength feats to match. She is undoubtedly more powerful, affording her better augmentation from the Force.

She is stated to have learnt every form but Form V: Djem-So, she achieved excellence in her mastery of Form VII: Juyo. By extension she is a master of multiple other forms too.

She wins, there is no area in which Jinn takes a margin. His greatest feat is holding off Maul, whom in reality just baited him away from Kenobi to get the killing blow.

She is a renowned army buster and has won via skill over the likes of Atris, Traya, and Sion. Whom are all master duelists themselves.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2016 02:38 AM
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Fated Xtasy
Kami

Registered: Mar 2014
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by AncientPower
She has much higher stamina and durability,


I find impressive that QGJ was able to hold out as long as he did against a Duelist of Maul's caliber despite his age, lack of maneuvering room, and not to mention the innate weakness of his fight style

quote:
comparable speed and has the strength feats to match.


In Kotor 2? she has speed/strength feats? Mind refreshing my memory?



quote:
She is undoubtedly more powerful, affording her better augmentation from the Force.


I need more than just "More powerful = better augmentation" quotes?

quote:
She is stated to have learnt every form but Form V: Djem-So, she achieved excellence in her mastery of Form VII: Juyo. By extension she is a master of multiple other forms too.


That's a mechanic, not fact. Where is it stated she learned all forms?

quote:
She wins, there is no area in which Jinn takes a margin. His greatest feat is holding off Maul, whom in reality just baited him away from Kenobi to get the killing blow.


Because the duo was completely overwhelming, as stated in various sources. And we all saw the fight, QGJ was carrying the team, with Obi stepping in one time to stop maul from a killing blow.

Even if you disagree with that, Maul's defenses faltered during QGJ's final assault, making the Zabrak "unsure" of his victory.

quote:
She is a renowned army buster and has won via skill over the likes of Atris, Traya, and Sion. Whom are all master duelists themselves.


Where is Sion stated to be a master duelist?

Atris is technically skilled due to Juyo and it's general description, but nothing says she's a masterful duelist. She may have mastered other forms, but she's not stated to have mastered Juyo, so meh.

Traya had one hand to fight, Makashi sure comes to mind as a favored form, but if memory serves me right she's stated to have fought via Force Powers no?


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2016 03:11 AM
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Tondemonai
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2014
Location: Colorado


 

Traya also fought Meetra off by using the Force to use three airborn lightsabers


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2016 03:32 AM
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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I find impressive that QGJ was able to hold out as long as he did against a Duelist of Maul's caliber despite his age, lack of maneuvering room, and not to mention the innate weakness of his fight style


Surik fought through a 'legion' of the most elite Sith in the Triumvirate, on the most powerful Dark Side nexus in the galaxy. Before facing Darth Sion and then Darth Traya.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
In Kotor 2? she has speed/strength feats? Mind refreshing my memory?


She fought as an equal to Traya, whom point blank evaded Brianna's numerous attacks whilst standing still, Brianna who blitzed all five of the handmaidens simultanepusly, each with Echani precog.

She also fought as an equal to Darth Sion, whom easily lifts up Kreia and Atton Rand with one arm, and overwhelmed him, four times in succession. Whilst exhausted and hampered by a geyser of DS energy.

She also fought and killed entire packs of storm beasts, including the Greater Storm Beasts, whom can apparently one shot Jedi with their hits.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I need more than just "More powerful = better augmentation" quotes?


It's a general rule that the stronger you are, the greater your Force reserves and by extension greater augmentation.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
That's a mechanic, not fact. Where is it stated she learned all forms?


She instinctually remembers and learns Forms I-III from Kreia, she learns the others from the Jedi Masters along her journey. Even Vrook Lamar is impressed, Kavar however praises her quick mastery of Juyo.

Fightsaber confirmed that Jedi have to be high level masters of multiple forms before you can even try Juyo, which is the form she is confirmed to be a master of.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Because the duo was completely overwhelming, as stated in various sources. And we all saw the fight, QGJ was carrying the team, with Obi stepping in one time to stop maul from a killing blow.

Even if you disagree with that, Maul's defenses faltered during QGJ's final assault, making the Zabrak "unsure" of his victory.


Yet TPM still states Maul dictated the entire engagement and split them off on purpose. Jinn was overwhelmed and died in short order.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Where is Sion stated to be a master duelist?


Bladeborn are masters of combat that get given blades to represent their kills against Jedi, Darth Sion was their leader. Obviously he would have to be as well.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Atris is technically skilled due to Juyo and it's general description, but nothing says she's a masterful duelist. She may have mastered other forms, but she's not stated to have mastered Juyo, so meh.


Juyo implies that she must have mastered multiple forms to a high level beforehand. Not to mention she is erroneously afforded the accolade of being a master duelist in the prima guide, but under the name Darth Traya, whom she was meant to take the title of.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Traya had one hand to fight, Makashi sure comes to mind as a favored form, but if memory serves me right she's stated to have fought via Force Powers no?


She telekinetically weilded three, despite such powers and her superior power in the Force, Surik defeated her. Which logically infers Surik must have defeated her through a duel.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2016 04:32 AM
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Jmanghan
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Physical? Like in the sense of what? Having higher stamina or strength?

Technical mastery? Humbling a battlemaster who was considered unparalleled and second makes it seem like he can handle surik in that department.


Martial arts, & precog go to surik.

The rest is pretty arguable.
Well, she definitely has higher physicals/strength.

Qui-Gon is an Ataru user, so the years have really put him down as a Jedi, its the reason why Obi-Wan wanted Soresu, so he didn't have to make the same mistake Qui-Gon did.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2016 05:52 AM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

Meetra Surik

Old Post Feb 5th, 2016 11:50 AM
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Fated Xtasy
Kami

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: ???????


 

[QUOTE=15590669]Originally posted by AncientPower
Surik fought through a 'legion' of the most elite Sith in the Triumvirate, on the most powerful Dark Side nexus in the galaxy. Before facing Darth Sion and then Darth Traya.
quote:


That "legion" of little Sithy things were only powerful for their ability to feed on the Jedi's connection and thus weakening them, clearly Meetra is immune to this as she already resisted and negated Nihilus' Drain.


[quote]She fought as an equal to Traya, whom point blank evaded Brianna's numerous attacks whilst standing still, Brianna who blitzed all five of the handmaidens simultanepusly, each with Echani precog.



And Jinn fought well against Maul and , as i have already stated, had him on the defensive nearing the end of their battle. Maul being the same guy that did...

Overwhelmed Komari Vosa.

In his mind, the duel was all but over— his opponent was now dragging out the inevitable moment of defeat in a series of small humiliations. By turning to such diversionary tactics, Vosa had all but admitted that she was no match for the erratic staccato blows that he was delivering, seemingly from everywhere, all at once.
—Maul: Lockdown

He landed lightly. The entire tunnel was shaking as with the roar of some titanic beast. Maul looked up to see a driverless freight transport bearing down on him at better than one hundred kilometers an hour. Anyone else, even a trained athlete raised in a heavier gravity field, would have been crushed to paste. But Maul seized the Force, let it whip him up and to the side as if he were attached to a giant elastic band. The metal behemoth missed him by millimeters.
—DM: Shadow Hunter



quote:
She also fought as an equal to Darth Sion, whom easily lifts up Kreia and Atton Rand with one arm, and overwhelmed him, four times in succession. Whilst exhausted and hampered by a geyser of DS energy.


Where in the name of the Maker's beard is she stated to have overwhelmed him in a duel?

Also, are you really going to question the strength of a guy who sent shudders through Maul's body?

Hell, Maul's done better than Sion. erm

quote:
She also fought and killed entire packs of storm beasts, including the Greater Storm Beasts, whom can apparently one shot Jedi with their hits.


Yes i know the whole spiel, but where does it say the Beasts can one shot Jedi?

quote:
It's a general rule that the stronger you are, the greater your Force reserves and by extension greater augmentation.


Well, QGJ is renowned as one of the best and most powerful.

Obi-Wan’s hopes rose. Qui-Gon Jinn was a powerful Knight, one of the best.
—Star Wars: Jedi Apprentice #1

At age ten QGJ is among the strongest and the best of Padawans.

Qui-Gon Jinn had been the most promising of the Padawans, and Dooku had maneuvered to get him the first time he saw him in lightsaber training, at ten years old. Dooku knew that a Master would be judged by the prowess of his Padawan, and he wanted the best of the best.
—Legacy of the Jedi: Jude Watson

and age sixteen he is, as always, very strong in the force.


"He will be a great Jedi Knight," Dooku said. He had no doubt of that. Qui-Gon was quick to learn and very strong in the living Force
—Legacy of the jedi. Jude Watson

quote:
She instinctually remembers and learns Forms I-III from Kreia, she learns the others from the Jedi Masters along her journey. Even Vrook Lamar is impressed, Kavar however praises her quick mastery of Juyo.


Your first comment is correct.

Vrook says her style is sloppy though, but he's just an ******* so meh.

On Kavar, that's not on Juyo, the form is entirely dependent on the players class.

quote:
Fightsaber confirmed that Jedi have to be high level masters of multiple forms before you can even try Juyo, which is the form she is confirmed to be a master of.


confirmed to be a master of the form and confirmed to use the form are to separate things, Dear.

quote:
Yet TPM still states Maul dictated the entire engagement and split them off on purpose. Jinn was overwhelmed and died in short order.


At this point you're just bullshiting.

The TPM novelization, The Essential Guide to the Force, and either the SWE or the TPM comic, both state Maul felt that the two were going to win the engagement.



quote:
Bladeborn are masters of combat that get given blades to represent their kills against Jedi, Darth Sion was their leader. Obviously he would have to be as well.


What in the stone are Bladeborn? Give me the source for this.

quote:
Juyo implies that she must have mastered multiple forms to a high level beforehand. Not to mention she is erroneously afforded the accolade of being a master duelist in the prima guide, but under the name Darth Traya, whom she was meant to take the title of.


Under Cut/N Canon/Unused content? Yeah.

quote:
[b]She telekinetically weilded three, despite such powers and her superior power in the Force, Surik defeated her. Which logically infers Surik must have defeated her through a duel.


Which is impressive sure, but not compared to Maul, unless you believe Traya>Maul, in which case I have no comment dear.


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Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 05:48 AM
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Fated Xtasy
Kami

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It won't let me edit my post, meh.


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Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 05:50 AM
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Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 06:11 AM
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Fated Xtasy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by |King Joker|
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Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 06:22 AM
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FreshestSlice
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Meetra just instantly learns his fighting style and weaknesses before countering. I mean losing to Maul, who struggled more with raged Kenobi, is impressive and all, Fated, but lasting, "A while," won't take the cake here.

Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 07:03 AM
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Beniboybling
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Meetra just instantly learns his fighting style and weaknesses before countering. I mean losing to Maul, who struggled more with raged Kenobi, is impressive and all, Fated, but lasting, "A while," won't take the cake here.
People keep attributing that ability to the Exile but it was Kreia who was able to interpret their fighting styles and weaknesses before conveying it to Surik, though granted the Exile was able to apply this knowledge to great effect.

But yeah, Qui-Gon is in physical decline whereas the Exile taking on the entire Trayus Academy by herself demonstrates considerably superior physicals.


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Last edited by Beniboybling on Feb 7th, 2016 at 12:38 PM

Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 12:36 PM
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FreshestSlice
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I'm talking about what actually happens in story, not random dialogue meant to explain game mechanics. Story-wise, she needed no help learning these styles, she was just told to watch, and only on the Dark Side route.

Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 02:41 PM
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Beniboybling
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Cut scenes aren't part of the story now? Ok. no expression

And where does she insta analyse styles in the LS path?


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Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 03:04 PM
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FreshestSlice
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That's not what I mean, and you know it. I just wasn't talking about that bit. Even though it isn't a cutscene and was just random dialogue.

I assume if you learn a style, you learn it's weaknesses, something the player didn't need Kreia for, since they do kindly brought gameplay into the dialogue you're bringing up.

Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 03:11 PM
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Beniboybling
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When the Jedi Masters taught her the various forms, she learnt them quickly because of her Force bonds makes it easier for her to understanding teachings being conveyed.

Seeing has she neither has a bond with Qui Gon and he's not about to give her 101 in his form, it's not really relevant.

And it was a cutscene, look it up. The Exile breaks off combat and Kreia starts giving her advice through their TP connection, like she does throughout the game, the masters ask her what she could possibly learn and the Exile tells her she's analysed their style, much to their amazement.

Something she again interprets so quickly from Kreia because of their bond.

Passing that off as "random dialogue" as opposed to an obvious story element seems like conformation biased to me.


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Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 04:10 PM
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Nephthys
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Kreia does nothing more than give the Exile some information about the form, but Meetra is the one who copies it's movements and actually learns the form.

She also forms bonds extremely quickly with people around her so she'd bond with him in the fight like always.


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Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 04:31 PM
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