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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Obi-Wan Kenobi (ROTS) vs Darth Maul (SoD)


Obi-Wan Kenobi (ROTS) vs Darth Maul (SoD)
Started by: DarthAnt66

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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Warning Obi-Wan Kenobi (ROTS) vs Darth Maul (SoD)

Canon only. 15 meters starting distance. Standard mindset.


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Last edited by DarthAnt66 on Aug 1st, 2017 at 08:03 AM

Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 07:55 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

Aight

Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 08:04 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
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Note:
Canon only also means no starwars.com for the pursposes of this debate

Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 08:04 AM
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Ursumeles
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2016
Location: Outside the Universe


 

Rocky vs Ant.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 08:05 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

Lets start coz I'm impatient as fck

Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 08:06 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Lets start coz I'm impatient as fck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLW3CFZBdXI&t=0m3s


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 08:13 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
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quote: (post)

Course you're using my quote

Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 08:21 AM
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thesithmaster
Dark Lord of the Sith

Registered: Jul 2017
Location: The Sith Temple


 

Ah, canon only.
Leaning Maul for a 7-8/10 majority. Because in Canon, nothing hints at more than a decent growth from TCW to ROTS Kenobi. Kenobi also loses many of his Legends feats while Maul keeps his best ones save for the Sith Hunters/Death Sentence.
Of course, this is ROTS Kenobi. Maul splits with Ben Kenobi or takes a 5,5/10 majority.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 11:19 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

Part 1:
Lets first establish that TCW Kenobi, as in Kenobi almost a year before ROTS, has showcased superiority to TCW Maul under generally unfavorable circumstances. While Maul had a hindrance with his legs and grew a bit from tcw, Kenobi had far longer to grow and will be fighting here without circumstantial disadvantages.

First lets look at their Season 4 duel. Maul was pre-prime and likely rusty from being out of practice. However Kenobi, also pre-prime, was physically wrecked. He had been Ko'd twice, and severely beaten beforehand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgUfVYZxTjg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8VsLu1BfhM

Additionaly Kenobi had an emotional hindrance from realizing it was truly Maul:
https://youtu.be/n8PEGa3Wq50?t=13m30s

Despite both being hinered Kenobi effectively beat Maul twice in the first minuite:
https://youtu.be/DlJiphrbLyg?t=1m
https://youtu.be/DlJiphrbLyg?t=1m7s
(maul took several seonds to start getting up from both hits)
The only thing stopping Kenobi would be the presence of ventress and oppress. A presence he doesn't have to worry about here.

Maul was able to land a succession of hits on Kenobi, however two things should be noted:
1. Said hits were an act of desperation from Kenobi slamming down Maul's blade and hence leaving Maul vulnerable here:
https://youtu.be/DlJiphrbLyg?t=1m16s
Had Maul not kicked out, the fight would be over
2. Kenobi ended up getting up almost instantly
3. The legs were more devestating then they would be here, as this is before Maul got new legs. Legs which are less powerful.

It would be misleading to point to maul winning after his use of dun moch, because dun moch was only successfully exploited when Kenobi was physically and mentally wrecked. Maul failed to use it against Kenobi on florrum when Kneobi wasn't compromised so we should assume it wouldn't be a factor here.

On Florrum, Kenobi all but confirmed his superiority to Maul.

In their 1 v 1 fighting defensively, Kenobi ended it landing a kick that disorientated Maul for 7 seconds(fortunately Kenobi didn't press the opening as he attacked Oppress instead):
https://youtu.be/aE_CVWMWK74?t=1m57s
Note, Maul only picks his head up here:
https://youtu.be/aE_CVWMWK74?t=2m3s

Finally, Kenobi, making use of a secondary style managed to land blows on maul and briefly drive him back while making quick work of Oppress:
https://youtu.be/aE_CVWMWK74

Kenobi is Maul's clear superior with the blade.

Now to address the notion of Maul ragdolling Kenobi. Aside from Kenobi being pre-prime, Maul has never actually defeated Kenobi via ragdolling aside from when he was visibly injured in on Mandalore. On Florrum maul tk'd Kenobi as he was distracted with Oppress. Even counting that as valid, this use of TK failed to actually do anything to Kenobi. For Kenobi blasting Maul, I'd say it's logical Maul was in a state of rage given he'd just seen his brother's arm cut off and was hence desperate to save him. Even if he wasn't, Maul was only allowed the opportunity charge up and then to blast Kenobi as he had been given space from Kenobi thanks to the presence of Oppress. Earlier outside the cave, and on the Turtle Tanker Maul never had a chance attempt to tk on Kenobi when engaged on a 1 v 1 duel as he is here.

Since a pre-ROTS Kenobi's edge as a swordsman has repeatedly given him an advantage in situations applicable here, and Maul's supposed force edge hasn't, ROTS Kenobi would logically fare better in a fight.

Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 12:12 PM
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thesithmaster
Dark Lord of the Sith

Registered: Jul 2017
Location: The Sith Temple


 

I can't even...


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 01:06 PM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

Will be an Awesome fight one way or the other. The kind of fight we were expecting to get in Rebels.

I think if Kenobi just fights fully defensively throughout then he'll come out on top.

Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 01:13 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by thesithmaster
I can't even...

Then for the sake of everyone on kmc, don't

Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 02:29 PM
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thesithmaster
Dark Lord of the Sith

Registered: Jul 2017
Location: The Sith Temple


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Then for the sake of everyone on kmc, don't


Well, if I countered it, I would be getting into a debate where people have strong biases and will do their best to demolish the reputation of the other combatant, and I would be countering trash. I'm not interested in dealing with such manufactured misinformation that will remain even if it's debunked.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 04:32 PM
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ares834
Grand Moff

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

Kenobi. No question really.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 04:38 PM
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UCanShootMyNova
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2016
Location:


 

Maul.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 06:10 PM
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darthbane77
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2016
Location: Pennsylvania, United States


 

Kenobi. Maul has never once bested Kenobi without added circumstances contributing to the battle. Kenobi is the obvious superior.

Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 06:29 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by thesithmaster
Well, if I countered it, I would be getting into a debate where people have strong biases and will do their best to demolish the reputation of the other combatant, and I would be countering trash. I'm not interested in dealing with such manufactured misinformation that will remain even if it's debunked.

Good thing I already gave you a rather simple solution:
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Then don't


Now settle down so the real debaters can settle this.

Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 07:16 PM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by darthbane77
Kenobi. Maul has never once bested Kenobi without added circumstances contributing to the battle. Kenobi is the obvious superior.



It could be argued the only time Kenobi ever best Maul without circumstance was in Rebels. But given this is the ROTS/SOD time period, that fight's not applicable.

Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 07:16 PM
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TenebrousWay
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2016
Location:


 

Most likely Kenobi in a very good fight.

Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 07:19 PM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Part 1:
Lets first establish that TCW Kenobi, as in Kenobi almost a year before ROTS, has showcased superiority to TCW Maul under generally unfavorable circumstances. While Maul had a hindrance with his legs and grew a bit from tcw, Kenobi had far longer to grow and will be fighting here without circumstantial disadvantages.

First lets look at their Season 4 duel. Maul was pre-prime and likely rusty from being out of practice. However Kenobi, also pre-prime, was physically wrecked. He had been Ko'd twice, and severely beaten beforehand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgUfVYZxTjg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8VsLu1BfhM

Additionaly Kenobi had an emotional hindrance from realizing it was truly Maul:
https://youtu.be/n8PEGa3Wq50?t=13m30s

Despite both being hinered Kenobi effectively beat Maul twice in the first minuite:
https://youtu.be/DlJiphrbLyg?t=1m
https://youtu.be/DlJiphrbLyg?t=1m7s
(maul took several seonds to start getting up from both hits)
The only thing stopping Kenobi would be the presence of ventress and oppress. A presence he doesn't have to worry about here.

Maul was able to land a succession of hits on Kenobi, however two things should be noted:
1. Said hits were an act of desperation from Kenobi slamming down Maul's blade and hence leaving Maul vulnerable here:
https://youtu.be/DlJiphrbLyg?t=1m16s
Had Maul not kicked out, the fight would be over
2. Kenobi ended up getting up almost instantly
3. The legs were more devestating then they would be here, as this is before Maul got new legs. Legs which are less powerful.

It would be misleading to point to maul winning after his use of dun moch, because dun moch was only successfully exploited when Kenobi was physically and mentally wrecked. Maul failed to use it against Kenobi on florrum when Kneobi wasn't compromised so we should assume it wouldn't be a factor here.

On Florrum, Kenobi all but confirmed his superiority to Maul.

In their 1 v 1 fighting defensively, Kenobi ended it landing a kick that disorientated Maul for 7 seconds(fortunately Kenobi didn't press the opening as he attacked Oppress instead):
https://youtu.be/aE_CVWMWK74?t=1m57s
Note, Maul only picks his head up here:
https://youtu.be/aE_CVWMWK74?t=2m3s

Finally, Kenobi, making use of a secondary style managed to land blows on maul and briefly drive him back while making quick work of Oppress:
https://youtu.be/aE_CVWMWK74

Kenobi is Maul's clear superior with the blade.

Now to address the notion of Maul ragdolling Kenobi. Aside from Kenobi being pre-prime, Maul has never actually defeated Kenobi via ragdolling aside from when he was visibly injured in on Mandalore. On Florrum maul tk'd Kenobi as he was distracted with Oppress. Even counting that as valid, this use of TK failed to actually do anything to Kenobi. For Kenobi blasting Maul, I'd say it's logical Maul was in a state of rage given he'd just seen his brother's arm cut off and was hence desperate to save him. Even if he wasn't, Maul was only allowed the opportunity charge up and then to blast Kenobi as he had been given space from Kenobi thanks to the presence of Oppress. Earlier outside the cave, and on the Turtle Tanker Maul never had a chance attempt to tk on Kenobi when engaged on a 1 v 1 duel as he is here.

Since a pre-ROTS Kenobi's edge as a swordsman has repeatedly given him an advantage in situations applicable here, and Maul's supposed force edge hasn't, ROTS Kenobi would logically fare better in a fight.



1) Let's not forget Peak TCW Maul was post all these fights with his smaller more human robotic legs as per Filoni.

2) S4 Maul hasn't duelled in 10+ years. That fight was more a contest of what Kenobi and Maul can do when not in Peak condition, and generally showing how fights between these 2 are capable of going either way.

3) Florrum 1st fight- Standing still for 7 seconds is not being defeated. First Kenobi created distance with that kick anyway, so it's not like all he had to do was stab. He'd have to close the distance first. Up until that point that was a very evenly fought Saber fight which went on for a while against a Properly Focused Kenobi as per Filoni.

4) Florrum 2nd fight- This was an Even More Focused Kenobi, after Adi's death, per Filoni. So definitely not the regular mind set the OP is asking for.
But just to get an idea of the Peak Performance and Environmental advantages Kenobi had here, remember Dooku vs the weaker Savage and Ventress?
Still Maul himself never went down. Not once.

5) TK- Do you have a Canon feat from Kenobi which matches pulling the Jedi craft down?

Old Post Aug 1st, 2017 07:27 PM
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