It looks like the ground realities are becoming clear:
Luke's StealthX nudged him again from behind-how? Caedus couldn't see. Force push? Something metallic inside the fuselage shrieked. He had a sense of someone rummag-ing furiously in the drives as if looking for a dropped hydrospanner, throwing fragments into the coils. He's ripping the thing apart...
Caedus tried to block Luke in the Force and suddenly got an idea of just how much power Luke could muster. His seat shot forward, sheared off the runners, tipped to one side, and he hit the console at an angle before he could buffer the collision with the Force. Something cracked in his chest. Pain flared, stopping his breathing. Then he was aware of brilliant white light coming right at him. In the moments before he managed to veer off to starboard, al-most blinded, he got a glimpse of a StealthX's uneven out-line with two grappling arms extended, and the sense of a Jedi other than Luke.
- from LotF: Revelations
Caedus does not seem to anticipate or grasp Luke's power in Revelations, even though he's experienced Luke immobilizing him in Inferno which had also shocked him at the time, fighting through Shimrra's palace in The Unifying Force, and had learned of his defeat of UnuThul in Dark Nest (and witnessed UnuThul's power firsthand). It's clear, then, that:
Full power Luke >> Luke who can immobilize Caedus >> TUF Luke, and
Full power Luke >> (more ">'s") > UnuThul = combined power of more than a trillion killiks = enough power to arc back turbolaser barrages.
And Caedus is stated to be more powerful than Vader, so:
And Luke >>>> Caedus > Vader.
Luke's domination of Caedus is frankly better than anything we've ever seen. Caedus doesn't just get ragdolled, he literally can't move a limb and couldn't even move his chair even after Luke had left. I don't think we've ever witnessed from a non-godlike being the domination of a > Vader level being to that degree before.
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Meh, Caedus isn't that great. I wouldn't put him above Vader tbh, blurb be damned. Luke is in the top 2 Force users of all time though, by FS is right that he's wildly inconsistent as a combatant.
Why? Caedus has a quote putting him above Vader, which matches how powerful he should be given his potential and training. Though Caedus's competence as a combatant varies as wildly as Luke's, this is a contest of sheer Force power.
Luke scales up and down to his competition but would obviously not hold back against the likes of Valkorion.
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UnuThul has two particularly absurd things going for him:
1. He is explicitly stated as having the potential of the entire Killik Colony to draw upon. That's literally trillions of beings. E.g. thousands of Ziosts at the very least.
2. He continuously bends back turbolaser barrages capable of taking out cruisers, something we've never seen a Force user or technological device do. Well, the latter isn't exactly accurate - we've seen artificial singularities like dovin basals and Centerpoint Station do that. It seems as though UnuThul's TK is comparable to that of said singularities given that:
- even interdictors which can pull capital ships out of hyperspace and then decelerate them from highly relativistic speeds within moments have never been successfully used to bend turbolasers
- turbolasers are described as lightspeed weapons with sublight tracer effects in the AotC ICS
- Centerpoint Station is described as "impossibly" bending turbolasers in LotF: Fury
- Luke just conveniently gets described as not being movable by a black hole when he tanks UnuThul's TK
And yet Luke no-sells UnuThul's Force push, no-sells UnuThul then continuously trying to budge him, and then ragdolls him.
Jacen has intimately witnessed UnuThul's power, knows Luke defeated him, and then gets shocked when Luke pins him to a chair, and then shocked again when Luke dominates him in Revelations.
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I don't care how powerful someone is. If they are poisoned, bound, and being choked from behind, they should die. The fact that Luke is able to easily overcome all of these limitations and TK bind Caedus to a chair shows incompetence on his part. It has very little to do with "sheer Force power."
This is the very definition of inconsistency. I can't make judgements based on the character involved outside of Luke himself.
You're mixing scenes. Luke wasn't poisoned or whatever when he pinned Caedus, but that would've made it even more impressive, circular logic notwithstanding.
?? I gave a pretty clear model for how to predict Luke's performance in a fight. Is there something wrong with it?
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__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Sel-Makor was a dark side entity that was powered by the combined psychic potential of the entire Gormak species on Voss. He could only stalemate a portion of Vitiate's power whilst in the literal heart of Sel-Makor's power.
Vitiate was meanwhile breaking Revan, suppressing Vaylin's raw power, dominating the Dread Masters, dominating the First Son; whose power was so great that other Children of the Emperor couldn't comprehend it, dominating hundreds of Children. Whilst having the remaining power to 'easily' defeat the four most powerful Jedi warriors in the galaxy, survive physical death on Voss, and still have enough power to fuel a galaxy devastating ritual whilst needing nothing more than billions of simultaneous deaths to finish fueling it.
This is pre-Ziost, after Ziost Tenebrae drops the Vitiate mask and becomes Valkorion. Becoming vastly more powerful. As a mere spirit he dominates Vaylin, the Outlander and Arcann in combat.
Even worse is that this battle takes place in the Dark Temple, the strongest nexus on Dromund Kaas at the height of its potency. Yet Luke on a weaker nexus on a weaker version of Dromund Kaas is considerably gimped by its power.
Valk definitely wins with the advantage.
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Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Last edited by AncientPower on Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:34 PM
Registered: Aug 2016
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Valkorion loses, though it's close. If Luke starts feeling like he can't win (which won't happen, but for the sake of the "if") Luke will enter Oneness and ultrastomp Valkorion into paste anyway.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Feb 10th, 2018 07:26 PM
