ANH Vader is really fast too. 18 years before ANH, Vader moved faster than anyone Ferus Olin has ever seen except for Yoda, which includes a slightly post prime Obi-Wan:
I doubt Grievous's speed and agility will be a deciding factor against 0BBY Vader.
Registered: Feb 2013
Location: On my lawn chair drinkin a beer
Except we're talking about ANH-Vader - and George Lucas already said in a quote that Vader was old and slow in ANH.
And 18 years before that, he was still very slow:
Only the right arm prosthesis that he had received as a Jedi felt natural to him, since he had customized it to fit his needs.
The pneumatic mechanisms that supplied articulation and support were sometimes slow to respond.
- Rise of Darth Vader
Instead of using durasteel for his leg prosthesis, the medical droids had substituted an inferior alloy, and had failed to inspect the strips that protected the electromotive lines. As a result, the inner lining of the pressurized bodysuit was continually snagging on places where the strips were anchored to knee and ankle joints. Additionally, the tall boots were a poor fit for his artificial feet, whose toes lacked the electrostatic sensitivity of his equally false fingertips. These devices made it even more difficult for him to move with ease, much less with any grace. Raised in the heel, the cumbersome footwear canted him slightly forward, forcing him to move with exaggerated caution lest he stumble or topple over. Worse, they were so heavy that he often felt rooted to the ground, or as if he were moving in high gravity. He even felt that he needed to use the Force to move, though he eventually grew used to it.
- Rise of Darth Vader
The defects in his prosthetic arms mirrored those of his legs.
Only the right one felt natural to him—though it, too, was artificial—and the pneumatic mechanisms that supplied articulation and support were sometimes slow to respond. The weighty cloak and pectoral plating so restricted his movement that he could scarcely lift his arms over his head, and he had already
been forced to adapt his lightsaber technique to compensate.
- Rise of Darth Vader
As of 0 BBY, Vader was given an opportunity to have a new suit built for him. This suit would have been far more advanced, technologically superior, and much more comfortable than his original. However, to be placed into this new suit, Vader would have to have had his prosthetics disconnected and his life support systems temporarily disabled. Since the process was considered far too risky, and most likely would result in his death, the idea was abandoned.
- Death Star
His electrical systems were woefully delicate, and he was forced to protect his vital chest panel when dueling.
- Rise of Darth Vader
This system was so vulnerable that Antinnis Tremayne was once able to deactivate Vader's entire suit by pressing one button on his chest control plate.
- Evasive Action: Recruitment
0BBY Vader nearly lost to a mook Jedi.
Grevious on the other hand couldn't be beaten by Mace Windu.
Grevious can also swing his lightsabers 26 times a second.
Jesus, Yousuf, you're a n00b.
Grevious utterly rapes Vader in pure dueling.
__________________ Asking about which Jedi or Sith that can defeat Darth Nihilus is like asking about which one of the X-Men can defeat Galactus.
Registered: Feb 2013
Location: On my lawn chair drinkin a beer
Yeah - I challenge you to find me clips aside from the obvious Revenge Of The Sith and the Kiddie Clone Wars bullshit series that implies that are many Jedi who can beat Grevious.
__________________ Asking about which Jedi or Sith that can defeat Darth Nihilus is like asking about which one of the X-Men can defeat Galactus.
ANH Vader is more experienced and powerful than 18BBY Vader, so my point is valid. Vader was only 42-43 by ANH, he wasn't that old. What George says about Vader being "slow" in ANH probably refers to the choreagraphy or how Vader is slow compared to PT Anakin. Can you show me Lucas's statement that Vader is slow for context, please?
That quote is talking about 18BBY Vader's suit mechanics, it doesn't change the fact that that same Vader moves faster than anyone Ferus Olin has ever seen except for Yoda, including a post prime Obi-Wan. Next:
That quote doesn't say Vader is slow, it just says that he's slower and less agile than his pre suit self, which is hardly an insult to cyborg Vader given that RotS Anakin has been described as the strongest and fastest Jedi ever. And the end of that quote says that "he eventually grew used to it." Next:
OK? All that quote says is that Vader felt uncomfortable with his suit, that its mechanics were sometimes slow and that he had been forced to change his lightsaber technique for the sake of his new suit. And this quote seems to referring to how Vader's suit initially felt. ANH Vader has been wearing that suit for 19 years, and he's used to his suit's limitations by then.
All that quote says is that Vader had a chance to get a new suit that was better than the one we know he wears but didn't because it was too risky. Vader's suit is definitely imperfect because he wasn't as fast and agile as pre suit Anakin/Vader, but pre suit Anakin/Vader is a powerhouse.
Well yeah, of course Vader is going to protect his chest panel during combat. He has a lightsaber lol.
In what circumstances did Tremayne deactivate Vader's entire suit?
KEK.
I'm sorry, but I got a good laugh out of this read...
Grievous got beaten by Kit Fisto and got his ass handed to him by gungans. I can play the low balling game too.
Cool, but Vader is also pretty fast due to Force augmentation. He's not as fast as Grievous for sure, but you're insinuating that Grievous's superior speed is a deciding factor.
Lol, I'm not a noob. I've not done much debating on kmc forums, but I have done some on comic vine. I will admit that I've been mostly inactive from 2018 and 2019, but I was reasonably active in 2016 and 2017 due to loss of interest in SW debating.
Grievous is not "raping" Vader in pure duelling, and seriously... Grievous rapes Vader? What's the actual point in using the word rape out of context in a Star Wars versus thread? I roll my eyes every time I see this occur because it's a nasty term with horrific implications. I'm already losing interest in responding to you.
Too bad it's part of the Star Wars canon. And Grievous isn't all bad in that show. He was able to manhandle Obi-Wan in hand to hand combat and fact files says that he is able to fight evenly with Obi-Wan in lightsaber combat.
Round 1: Grevious - Lucas didn't think too highly of Vader's power and skill in comparison to the Jedi of the prequels.
Round 2: Vader, by far. Disney canon has ranked Vader the greatest red lightsaber duelist (which is confirmed still canon even after the revision came out).
He was trying to find those to become Inquisitors, he was busy choking out 2 of them with his hands, then Tremayne came and hit the button.
If Vader was actually trying to kill them, then no one would get close...he was trying to see their anger and see if they were up to par.
But even going with that as a legitimate showing, we already have showings of Vader's chest panel being damaged or pretty much destroyed and him having no issues with moving or breathing...sooo already contradicted.
Furthermore, this whole "Vader is slow" nonsense really has to just...stop.
Slow compared to who/what? We have showings of him moving quick, of actually being pretty agile at times and keeping up with Jedi who have no issues of maneuverability.
Sooo...slow compared to.....what exactly? Saying "he is slow" means nothing, when there isn't a compairson and he has feats showing otherwise.
Yeah, sure perhaps at one point he may have been. But you know...retcons and other material happens...he grows better accustomed to his suit and so on. This whole slowness as an argument for Vader is pretty weak, because as we've seen...he has feats saying otherwise.
__________________ "Commence primary ignition."
Last edited by Zenwolf on Sep 17th, 2019 at 04:14 AM
Thanks for providing the context zenwolf. And yeah this "Vader is slow" nonsense needs to stop. While Vader may have difficulty moving around in his cybernetic suit, bu that was only in the early stages of his career and it's obvious that he adapted to his suit's limitations and compensated for them over time. Vader's feats also speak for themselves. In canon, he was able to keep up with a speedy opponent like Ahsoka and was defeating her. In Legends, ANH Vader was able to give a really good fight to a resurrected TPM Maul who is incredibly fast and agile. Maul was admittedly getting the better of Vader in the lightsaber duel, but Vader was pre-prime and still gave Maul a solid fight.
Sep 15th, 2019 11:23 AM
