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Terminator Paradox
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A.D. Skinner
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Terminator Paradox

Okay sci-fi fans....here is something to think about and of course...I would love to hear your comments on this Time Travelling Paradox.


In the 1st Terminator movie....Kyle Reece is sent back in time by John Conner to save the life of Sarah Conner. In doing so, he falls in love and fathers a child, which we later find out is John Conner himself.

But alas, Kyle Reece dies and therefore cannot fight in the war against the machines as we have learned he did.

Therefore, if time were to continue on from that point in which Kyle Reece dies...John Conner would live up to the leader he was born to be, but never know Kyle Reece in the future, and therefore never be able to send him back in time to save his mother and be his own Father. The Terminator would in fact travel back in time, but without Kyle Reece being sent back to save his Mother, the Terminator would suceed in killing her and therefore there would be no John Conner and he would cease to exist. ( namely due to the reason that Kyle would not be sent back as well, and not be there for Sarah to fall in love with, or Father a child with her )


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Old Post Dec 29th, 2005 05:14 PM
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SpyCspider
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well Kyle wasn't born until after John grows up, remember? OR he was born while Jon was growing up. He died in the past but wasn't born until sometime in the future. Hence, he'll still be born and grow up to fight the machines...and John knows that. Remember Sarah at the end of Terminator says "would you have changed your decision knowing that he was your father?" (or somethign like that). And Kyle knew John's father dies before the war starts. Maybe John told him this version of Kyle dies before the war starts, but the Kyle that was being born at the very moment (during Terminator or Terminator 2) is going to live. In essence, you have two Kyle's in existence during Terminator 1 or just 1 Kyle in Terminator 2 , depending on how old Kyle is in comparison to John.

My main qualm is why didn't they send the Terminatrix or T-1000 after Sarah or John in Terminator 1 and 2, if they are both more powerful terminators. Just send back the strongest ones.


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Old Post Dec 29th, 2005 07:36 PM
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A.D. Skinner
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But wait....on the original timeline...before Judgement day...John Conner is born before his Father ? That don't jive ?

If in fact Kyle Reese is John Connors Father, and Kyle was born after Judgement day...how in fact could he be John's Father ?

Anyone ??? confused


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 12:43 AM
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Professor N
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Its the who time paradox thing, but it does make sense if you know the physics behind it and take careful not.

Think of time, past present and future all existing at the same time.

John corner is born because his father comes back in time to meet his mother, it doesnt matter that john is born before his father.

Another way to look at is is to note the big speech about machines and humans and the war. In the first one, Reese(the dad)tells it to the mum, she tells it to john (the son) and in the future it will become a big speech he tells all the humans (a la independance day) which is when Reese will hear it for the first time.

So who wrote the speech???? No one, it just exists as part of all three time lines. The future is set (you cant change it) so it is possible for the dad to come back in time and father a sun because that is how it has, must and can happen


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 01:25 AM
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A Hero's Fate
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by A.D. Skinner
But wait....on the original timeline...before Judgement day...John Conner is born before his Father ? That don't jive ?

If in fact Kyle Reese is John Connors Father, and Kyle was born after Judgement day...how in fact could he be John's Father ?

Anyone ??? confused


because he banged sarah in the first movie


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2006 01:30 AM
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krypton
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confusing

yeh very confusing

Old Post Jan 10th, 2006 12:55 PM
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office jesus
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Don't you just LOVE time travel?


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Old Post Feb 9th, 2006 02:11 AM
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Makedde
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by stunna1773
because he banged sarah in the first movie


laughing Very funny.


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Old Post Feb 9th, 2006 03:26 AM
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Wolfie
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It's one of those time loop things.

There's this symbol to express it. The snake eating its own tail. The snake has no beginning or ending, it's an infinite loop.

And though it can be easily overlooked, we do have a Terminator forum.


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Old Post Feb 9th, 2006 06:22 AM
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Makedde
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A lot about the movies confuses me, then, when I think I have it all worked out, I think of something else and am back to where I started.


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Old Post Feb 11th, 2006 12:39 PM
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VIDEODROME
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It's kind of weird in many ways. Skynet is indirectly responsible for creating it's nemesis by creating time travel. Also apparently Skynet created itself from the remains of the first Terminator. This all should have been undone by the end of T2 but for some reason it wasn't.

Old Post Feb 26th, 2006 04:07 AM
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raygun299
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There is no Paradox in Terminator.
The first you have to take the evidence of chaos theory and that all things are interconnected.
The first timeline we have to look at; is the timeline of the unknown father. This unknown father is of John Conner's original father. Who died before the war or during the war. We don't know who this father is, however he must have existed for John Conner to be born. Thus allowing Johns existence, and for the war to happen, and for him to send Kyle back.
The photo of Sarah in the car; which was gives to Kyle could have been taken by the original father, who we don't see as he is taking the picture. The paradox is cleared up once the time travel element is introduced; the photo is not taken by the father but by a child. Itís just chaos theory that Kyle has the photo and falls in love with Sarah. The photo was clearly given to Kyle before he goes through time, and was destroyed before he goes through time.

In sending Kyle BACK in time John has changed is past, the future paradox is changed immediately, only the knowledge that John has now, is that he must send Kyle back through time; otherwise he wouldn't exist.

The Idea that you can send you own father back in time before you have the knowledge of a time machine is madness! They only find the time machine, after the terminator has gone through.
So did John Conner, have Kyle at his side all the time, hoping to find a time machine so he could create his own father.
It is simple chaos theory; that Kyle is chosen to travel back; he was the wrong person in the wrong place at the right time.
There must have been another father, for time to play out.
The second time line is created once Kyle is sent back in time; and this is the future we are presented in Terminator, Terminator 2 and 3. They know whatís going to happen in the future, the war, skynet, Kyle, time travel and they cant stop any of them from happening; as to do so would create more and more paradoxes.
Also people saying why not send back the T1000 or the TX back in time. The only problem there is, you can't send something back unless you know the out come of the first T800.
Kyle only knows his future, as for him the future has not changed, but for us the future has changed.
The end of T2 states, "The future is unknown; and the only future is, one we make for ourselves".

Old Post May 14th, 2008 03:57 PM
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Bardock42
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by A.D. Skinner
Okay sci-fi fans....here is something to think about and of course...I would love to hear your comments on this Time Travelling Paradox.


In the 1st Terminator movie....Kyle Reece is sent back in time by John Conner to save the life of Sarah Conner. In doing so, he falls in love and fathers a child, which we later find out is John Conner himself.

But alas, Kyle Reece dies and therefore cannot fight in the war against the machines as we have learned he did.

Therefore, if time were to continue on from that point in which Kyle Reece dies...John Conner would live up to the leader he was born to be, but never know Kyle Reece in the future, and therefore never be able to send him back in time to save his mother and be his own Father. The Terminator would in fact travel back in time, but without Kyle Reece being sent back to save his Mother, the Terminator would suceed in killing her and therefore there would be no John Conner and he would cease to exist. ( namely due to the reason that Kyle would not be sent back as well, and not be there for Sarah to fall in love with, or Father a child with her )


You just made a mistake thinking that because the old Kyle died in the past the younger Kyle never grew up. Which is not a given.


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Old Post May 14th, 2008 06:04 PM
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jinXed by JaNx
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Reese was from the future. He went back in time and fathered john conner. Reese died in the past, but this doesnt mean that he will never be born to meet john conner in the future. Now, if reese was killed before he met john conner, john conner would still have been born, but by a different father. John Conner was born at least once by a different father than Reese.


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Old Post May 14th, 2008 06:15 PM
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Bardock42
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Reese was from the future. He went back in time and fathered john conner. Reese died in the past, but this doesnt mean that he will never be born to meet john conner in the future. Now, if reese was killed before he met john conner, john conner would still have been born, but by a different father. John Conner was born at least once by a different father than Reese.
Are you sure of that?


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Old Post May 14th, 2008 06:21 PM
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jinXed by JaNx
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bardock42
Are you sure of that?


I'm not sure of anything when it comes to hypothetical time paradoxes, but i'd say it's a safe assumption. There had to have been one original time line with no alternate time lines ahead of it at one point.


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Old Post May 14th, 2008 10:13 PM
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Bardock42
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
I'm not sure of anything when it comes to hypothetical time paradoxes, but i'd say it's a safe assumption. There had to have been one original time line with no alternate time lines ahead of it at one point.


I think that's only the case if you assume that time is like a stream that goes. If you see time and space as a full picture then Kyle could always have been John's father.


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Old Post May 14th, 2008 11:41 PM
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jinXed by JaNx
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i dont know, that just doesn't connect with me. I guess i could see that some where along the line Reese existed in the same time as Sarah Conner. time is very linear to me, so i see its beginning starting as a linear stream. How would you suggest that Reese was the original father of John?


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Old Post May 14th, 2008 11:57 PM
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Bardock42
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
i dont know, that just doesn't connect with me. I guess i could see that some where along the line Reese existed in the same time as Sarah Conner. time is very linear to me, so i see its beginning starting as a linear stream. How would you suggest that Reese was the original father of John?
Well, you just have to get rid of the understanding of linear progression. It is not necessarily correct.


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Old Post May 15th, 2008 12:29 AM
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BruceSkywalker
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by raygun299
There is no Paradox in Terminator.
The first you have to take the evidence of chaos theory and that all things are interconnected.
The first timeline we have to look at; is the timeline of the unknown father. This unknown father is of John Conner's original father. Who died before the war or during the war. We don't know who this father is, however he must have existed for John Conner to be born. Thus allowing Johns existence, and for the war to happen, and for him to send Kyle back.
The photo of Sarah in the car; which was gives to Kyle could have been taken by the original father, who we don't see as he is taking the picture. The paradox is cleared up once the time travel element is introduced; the photo is not taken by the father but by a child. Itís just chaos theory that Kyle has the photo and falls in love with Sarah. The photo was clearly given to Kyle before he goes through time, and was destroyed before he goes through time.

In sending Kyle BACK in time John has changed is past, the future paradox is changed immediately, only the knowledge that John has now, is that he must send Kyle back through time; otherwise he wouldn't exist.

The Idea that you can send you own father back in time before you have the knowledge of a time machine is madness! They only find the time machine, after the terminator has gone through.
So did John Conner, have Kyle at his side all the time, hoping to find a time machine so he could create his own father.
It is simple chaos theory; that Kyle is chosen to travel back; he was the wrong person in the wrong place at the right time.
There must have been another father, for time to play out.
The second time line is created once Kyle is sent back in time; and this is the future we are presented in Terminator, Terminator 2 and 3. They know whatís going to happen in the future, the war, skynet, Kyle, time travel and they cant stop any of them from happening; as to do so would create more and more paradoxes.
Also people saying why not send back the T1000 or the TX back in time. The only problem there is, you can't send something back unless you know the out come of the first T800.
Kyle only knows his future, as for him the future has not changed, but for us the future has changed.
The end of T2 states, "The future is unknown; and the only future is, one we make for ourselves".



quote: (post)
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Reese was from the future. He went back in time and fathered john conner. Reese died in the past, but this doesnt mean that he will never be born to meet john conner in the future. Now, if reese was killed before he met john conner, john conner would still have been born, but by a different father. John Conner was born at least once by a different father than Reese.



Good points


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Old Post May 15th, 2008 01:20 AM
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