F*#@ that. The Avengers. Count Nefaria, the Kree, the Skrulls, the Shi'ar, and many others. Sorry, but the Avengers deal with Galaxy wide threats all the time.
true but you could count the shi'ar as x-men enemys and if you count onslaught as an x-men villian then that would make their vllians a liitle bit more powerful
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tough to argue against the ff, here. doom, galactus, abraxas, aron the rogue watcher. they even went up against the dreaming celestial! the avengers rogue isn't bad, but the ff take this one, methinks.
The Fantastic Four consistently deal with foes of a high calibre, so they win overall, but the X-men are the group who have dealt with the most powerful threats i.e Phoenix and the M'kraan crystal.
The Phoenix and M'kraan were one darn time. The Avengers have taken on empires at a time. Operation Galactic Storm and the Kree-Skrull War are evidence of that. The Phoenix Saga and Dark Phoenix Saga were the fate of one person. Galactic Storm and K-S War still are having their effects on Marvel.
All of that is irrelevant. The thread is pertaining to the most powerful villains faced by the teams. The Phoenix Force is more powerful than any force the Avengers or the Fantastic Four have had to deal with in their own titles, same with the M'kraan crystal, thats the crux of the matter. So what if the effects of Op GS are still being felt? What does that have to do with the relative power of the threat?
Nothing at all.
As aforementioned, the F4 consistently deal with a higher calibre of foe whilst the X-men have faced the most powerful foe out of all the teams.
That's the thing though. The Avengers have fought the Shi'ar empire, The Kree, and the Skrulls. The X-Men never fought the Phoenix Force, and the Phoenix took care of the crystal itself. To be honest, those really are what's irrelivant here. Who really has fought the Phoenix force? All I know is that the LT cradled it in it's hands like a child.
The X-men fought the Phoenix Force in the Dark Phoenix Saga, the Phoenix Force is more powerful than any force the other teams have faced in their own titles. You can talk to me about the Avengers facing off against empires and whatever, but big wow Phoenix ate stars, Phoenix held the universe in the palm of her hand, Phoenix is the Big Bang which made the universe in the first place. In comparison to that, facing off against empires is insignificant.
Youre quite correct about the crystal however, it was less a threat they had to face down and more a potential threat they helped prevent.
Either way this thread is about the most powerful villains and as such all your comments about the amount of times the X-men faced the Phoenix are irrelevant.
LT did hold Phoenix in his hand, however it wasnt a scene intended to show LT was greater because it did nothing of the sort, they were merely conversing and whilst LT said he didnt want Phoenix to bond to a host at that time, it was also stated that Phoenix for the time being would heed his word for the sake of the multiverse as her power was too great. So it wasnt that LT had power enough to force Phoenix to do his will, Phoenix saw that LT was right and so she CHOSE to listen to him.
This is supported by the subsequent release of X-men Forever which shows that every creation cycle the Phoenix replaces the abstracts and LT with the evolved humanity of that reality. So the abstracts of the current universe are the evolved humanity of the previous universe. (Look at Galactus. Phoenixes role in his creation was added to his bio after X-men Forever) Phoenix is the Force that maintains this process and keeps it going throughout the multiverse cycle after cycle. Hence the scan you have seen in the LT respect thread of LT and the abstracts bowing before a Phoenix enhanced Stranger.
I rest my case. Know your stuff!!
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Last edited by GalacticStorm on Apr 28th, 2006 at 12:16 PM
Like I've told you before, I haven't read X-Men comics since Colossus died, so they've evidently done more with the Phoenix Force. To be honest, I think it stinks. It goes from the entity that guards the Mkraan crystal to something that is the catalyst of all creation? The last I had read about the Phoenix Force was that it's the nexus of all Psionic Energy in the universe, and didn't have anything to do with creation.
You do have me convinced though. However, when it comes to galactic peacekeeping and war involvement, that's probably what the Avengers are best known for.
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Apr 27th, 2006 11:50 PM
