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The Omniverse, (the structure of all Comic Universes)
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Horrificus
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The Omniverse, (the structure of all Comic Universes)

Ok, maybe this title and the idea behind it are a little bit lofty. Maybe they go too far, and risk arrogance in a subject that was born in the minds and imaginations of dreamers and children. But, hey, the stories we all loved and followed have evolved.

Along with the evolution of the stories and characters, the subject matter and level of scientific understanding that the stories demand, are forcing our basic knowledge and understanding of the world around us to evolve as well.

In other words, if we are going to pay the money we pay, for materials that we love, we should demand that the writers know what they are writing about. And, if we are going to spend hours debating the subject matter with other Comic Book Lovers, we should all have a basic grip on the environment our characters dwell in.

So, without further interruption, I introduce to you, “the Omniverse”.

Maybe some of you will dig it! Maybe some don’t really care about the details behind the pictures and words.

Regardless. Here is my attempt to reveal that which has caused so many arguments, misinterpretations, and faux pas.

The 2 Major Missions of this Thread will be to:

1. Create a model based on The Structure of the Omniverse that can be followed by Comic Book Debaters.
2. Create a model detailing the hierarchy, titles and designations of the various Abstract Entities, Cosmic Authorities, Mystic Gods etc., of the Comic World.

Good Luck! You guys are gonna need it.

Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 04:51 AM
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Horrificus
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What in the Name Of...!?

Debate is welcome! But, remember, the heart of this thread, is the Truth. Not Opinion.

Opinions are like the Sphincters of Rectal Orifices. Yup! Everybody has one. Unless you are using one of those “bag things”… but, no need to go there.

Anyway, I will begin with some of the information I have thrown down in other posts. I would not say that I am to be blindly listened to. But, the stuff I created is a pretty good place to start.

The most basic, and most important point to view this from, is that ALL comic book Universes are a part of their own, respective Multiverses.

For instance, it could be said that the DC and Marvel Universes are actually part of a DC Multiverse and a Marvel Multiverse.

For those of you that are knowledgeable about DC continuity, you may say there is only a DC Universe now.
I’m not sure, and clarifications are welcome. But, for the sake of this thread, we will say there is a DC Multiverse. Even if it has a Population of 1 Universe.

Whatever the case may be, these Multiverses are contained within an Omniverse.

Again. We will:

1. Create a Map that will help us see this gigantic realm of Comic Book Worlds.

and

2. List all the Comic Book "Big Boys". Specter, Eternity, Galactus, etc.
We will list them, and connect them with the realms they wander.

Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 04:53 AM
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Horrificus
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The Places...

For the sake of discussion within these threads, (and our own peace of mind), we should have a common understanding of the structure of the Omniverse, and all "Realms" within.

I like the idea of using the term "Realm" as an umbrella statement that covers all types of Localized Existence. The properties of a Realm usually have no impact, relation or significance to any other Realm. In other words, as we all know, if you slip into a pocket dimension, although, from inside, it COULD seem to be the size of an entire Universe, it is still, technically, WITHIN it's Core Universe. And, from outside, could seem relatively minute. It could be considered a type of
Tesseract.

Please note that most of these terms are recognized in the sciences. A "Realm" can be a/an:

1. Omniverse- Containing Multiverses.
2. Multiverse- Containing Universes.
3. Universe- Containing Galaxies and Known Space from within it's
Universal Boundry. Also, possibly containing, in some
manner, other Dimensions, Microverses and Realms.
4. Timeline Divergent- Omniverse, Multiverse, Universe.
5. Miniverse- A Single Universe as a Core with All connected Pocket
Dimensions, Microverses, Subdimensions and
SubMicroverses spaning from each larger Realm.
6. Dimension- A Realm that is somehow connected to the Core
Universe. Can be Mystic or Physical in nature.
examples (Cyttorak's Realm and Negative Zone)
Each of these can Spawn, View or Lead To other Realms
7. Microverse- Technically, just a different Dimension, spawned from
the Core. Tesseract, or version of? Contained in
the "Inner Space" of a Core Universe.

Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 04:55 AM
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Horrificus
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If I am within the Negative Zone, observing the Birth of a Universe, I am standing:

1. In a Realm that is an Offshoot or Pocket Dimension
who's Core Universe is the 616.
2. Either, looking at the birth of a Universe within the Negative Zone
because it's physical laws and size and dimensions allow
for "Universes" to exist within it. Or, possibly looking through a
Portal at an entirely separate Core Universe, Pocket Universe,
Multiverse, etc.
But, if it is a universe within the Negative Zone, it is still a
SubUniverse contained within the Core.

The point to being a separate Dimension, Universe, Reality, etc, is that it's physical and mystic laws may have nothing in common with the Core.
A Different Dimension can have Different Dimensions, (meaning properties). Cyttorak's realm may seem to be a small pocket dimension. Yet, once within, it may be literally "Endless".

Miniverse -10 -9 -8 -7 -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 Core 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Multiverse

So, if Marvel Universe 616 is a Core Universe:
We look within, it will have it's own Pocket Dimensions and possibly Universes, all contained in it. The 616 Miniverse.
Outside of the 616 Universe, is the Multiverse it exists in. The Marvel Multiverse?

Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 05:00 AM
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darthgoober
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I hate to be the one to point this out, but DC and Marvel don't share an omniverse. I know it doesn't really make sense because the omniverse is supposed to be EVERYTHING, but the companies are completely separate in and of themselves. Otherwise, the Chaos Wave(which was stated to be an omniversal threat) would have been a threat to DC also. Think about it, if the companies shared an omniverse, that would mean that the Chaos Wave(which was an omniversal threat) would have been beyond the power of TOAA to stop. Think of it like this, if Marvel had decided to shut down and close the company, and their method of doing this was to leave the Chaos Wave unchecked and have it destroy the entire omniverse on-panel, would that mean that DC would have to shut down too since all of their characters were destroyed?

By the same token, since Pre Recton Beyonder was stated to be everything outside of Marvel's multiverse, that would mean that he was composed of everything in DC also(including the Source). So for events like The Secret Wars & Secret Wars 2, DC shouldn't have been able to produce any of their own books, because all of the beings in DC were messing around in Marvel.

So the companies each have their own omniverse, independent of one each other, until they acknowledge that they will abide by the others decisions regardin the omniverse.


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Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 05:14 AM
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Horrificus
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Alternate Timelines. SH**!

Alternate Timelines


Here is the big pain:

Ok, according to the “Comic Lords”, and yeah, some scientists, for ever action, everywhere in the universe, there are a myriad of other possible actions that could have taken place.

For every one of these possible actions, a new universe is splintered off of the main, Core Universe.

Be that as it may, it causes a lot of problems.

If this is how it works out here, in the “exterior” of a universe, the entire Omniverse would be a solid block of Multiverses and Universes, because it would almost instantly create an infinite number of Splintered Alternate Timeline Realities.

So, that obviously is not the case.

With that in mind, these Alternate Timelines must be getting birthed in pocket dimensions of their own. Or else, they may be showing up in a Dimension that exists expressly for this purpose, and can hold an unlimited number of realities. Or, maybe they are popping up outside of our Omniverse. Or, maybe it is something totally different that is happening.

What do you guys think?

Whatever the case is, they are not a part of the “Outer Space” of the Marvel or DC Multiverses. There just ain’t no mo’ room out here!

So, they have to be going Inside.

Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 05:17 AM
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Horrificus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by darthgoober
I hate to be the one to point this out, but DC and Marvel don't share an omniverse. I know it doesn't really make sense because the omniverse is supposed to be EVERYTHING, but the companies are completely separate in and of themselves. Otherwise, the Chaos Wave(which was stated to be an omniversal threat) would have been a threat to DC also. Think about it, if the companies shared an omniverse, that would mean that the Chaos Wave(which was an omniversal threat) would have been beyond the power of TOAA to stop. Think of it like this, if Marvel had decided to shut down and close the company, and their method of doing this was to leave the Chaos Wave unchecked and have it destroy the entire omniverse on-panel, would that mean that DC would have to shut down too since all of their characters were destroyed?

By the same token, since Pre Recton Beyonder was stated to be everything outside of Marvel's multiverse, that would mean that he was composed of everything in DC also(including the Source). So for events like The Secret Wars & Secret Wars 2, DC shouldn't have been able to produce any of their own books, because all of the beings in DC were messing around in Marvel.

So the companies each have their own omniverse, independent of one each other, until they acknowledge that they will abide by the others decisions regardin the omniverse.

Great! It has started.

That may be. If it is, fine.

I will give us a way out. We can say that the Separate Omniverses exists within an all-encompassing Megaverse or Macroverse.

Let's see what other people have to say about your statement first, because I don't think I should chime in yet. There are more knowledgeable people in here than me.

Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 05:20 AM
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manorastroman
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by darthgoober
I hate to be the one to point this out, but DC and Marvel don't share an omniverse. I know it doesn't really make sense because the omniverse is supposed to be EVERYTHING, but the companies are completely separate in and of themselves. Otherwise, the Chaos Wave(which was stated to be an omniversal threat) would have been a threat to DC also. Think about it, if the companies shared an omniverse, that would mean that the Chaos Wave(which was an omniversal threat) would have been beyond the power of TOAA to stop. Think of it like this, if Marvel had decided to shut down and close the company, and their method of doing this was to leave the Chaos Wave unchecked and have it destroy the entire omniverse on-panel, would that mean that DC would have to shut down too since all of their characters were destroyed?

By the same token, since Pre Recton Beyonder was stated to be everything outside of Marvel's multiverse, that would mean that he was composed of everything in DC also(including the Source). So for events like The Secret Wars & Secret Wars 2, DC shouldn't have been able to produce any of their own books, because all of the beings in DC were messing around in Marvel.

So the companies each have their own omniverse, independent of one each other, until they acknowledge that they will abide by the others decisions regardin the omniverse.


actually they do share an omniverse. omniverse also includes our (meaning yours and mine) reality as well as every fiction devised. what they don't share are multiverses.

to my knowledge, no threat in either company has ever been omniversal. the chaos wave was most definitely not omniversal. pre-retcon beyonder doesn't exist, because that's the nature of a retcon. everything he did was illusion.


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Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 07:48 AM
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golem370
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Very detailed beyond my knowledge.


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Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 02:05 PM
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xmarksthespot
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... that you take from online bios.


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Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 02:28 PM
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Horrificus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by golem370
Very detailed beyond my knowledge.

No it's not. You're smart.

Omniverse has EVERYTHING in it. It is filled with Multiverses.

Each Comic Book Company that deals with Multiple Universes can be considered a Separate Multiverse.

Each Core Universe can be filled with Pocket Dimensions, Micro-Universes or Alternate Realities.

I will create an Image of all this.

Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 04:12 PM
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darthgoober
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by manorastroman
actually they do share an omniverse. omniverse also includes our (meaning yours and mine) reality as well as every fiction devised. what they don't share are multiverses.

to my knowledge, no threat in either company has ever been omniversal. the chaos wave was most definitely not omniversal. pre-retcon beyonder doesn't exist, because that's the nature of a retcon. everything he did was illusion.

The Chaos Wave was most definitely an omniversal threat(though I will give you the thing about the Beyonder's recton). Jim Jaspers was also an omniversal threat.

Unless the companies get together and agree to abide by each others decisions regarding the omniverse, they have to be considered to reside in their own, it's just that simple. Let's say I go out tomorrow and start a small independent comic company. Well, by your definition, my company would automatically be part of the established omniverse, right? Well, let's say that after a couple of years my company's going under, and(being angry about losing my business) I use the last issue I publish to have an omniversal threat destroy the omniverse on panel. Does that mean that DC and Marvel have to close down, or even acknowledge the event? NO. Because they aren't bound by my decisions regarding the omniverse in any way shape or form. So they completely ignore the event(justifiably), safe in their own omniverses, away from any decisions that I make.


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Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 05:15 PM
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Horrificus
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Please, if possible, supply any scans that include the terminology of "Omniverse".

If it is valid, we will just move up a notch, and start at Megaverse or Macroverse, to be safe. It, THAT will include the separate Omniverses.

If it has to be done.

Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 05:23 PM
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darthgoober
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I got to go find the stuff about the chaos wave, but here's a scan of Merlin talking about Jim Jaspers being a threat to the omniverse...

(please log in to view the image)


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Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 05:38 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Horrificus
Please, if possible, supply any scans that include the terminology of "Omniverse".

If it is valid, we will just move up a notch, and start at Megaverse or Macroverse, to be safe. It, THAT will include the separate Omniverses.

If it has to be done.
"in all the omniverse, there is not one universe that I cannot destroy at the touch of a switch."

http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=e8tr6.jpg


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全王

Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 05:42 PM
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darthgoober
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan777
"in all the omniverse, there is not one universe that I cannot destroy at the touch of a switch."

http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=e8tr6.jpg

Good one Galan.


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Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 05:44 PM
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Horrificus
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Well, they seem to throw the term around a lot, but it doesn't show any power over, or interaction on an Omniversal Level.

Which means, they are talking about the Omniverse, but then they are talking about how they can effect individual universes.

Is there anything showing anybody doing anything on an Omniversal Level? Remember, that would consisit of effecting "Multiverses" the way that character was talking about effecting "Universes".

Know what I mean?

Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 06:01 PM
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invisiblewoman
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wow okay i am so confused now . . . the omniverse is all comics combined marvel, dc, etc . . . or not? in fact what is it? i have have heard so many different deffinitions confused


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Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 06:04 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Horrificus
Well, they seem to throw the term around a lot, but it doesn't show any power over, or interaction on an Omniversal Level.

Which means, they are talking about the Omniverse, but then they are talking about how they can effect individual universes.

Is there anything showing anybody doing anything on an Omniversal Level? Remember, that would consisit of effecting "Multiverses" the way that character was talking about effecting "Universes".

Know what I mean?
You asked where an omniverse has been mentioned. It seems like now you are dismissing the fact that the omniverse has been mentioned in Marvel continuity.

Having no omniversal feats dosen't mean that there isnt an omniverse in Marvel. It just means that no one has really effected it "yet"


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Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 06:05 PM
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Astner
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The term Omniverse was invented at the same time as the DC vs marvel took place.
First it was supose to be all of Marvel and DC combinded.
Later they said it was the term for every possible universe, Marvel, DC; Image, Dark Horse and even our own reality.
Of course this did not last.
And at least the Marvel Megaverse was dubbed to the Omniverse.
And the Megaverse was just an other name for the Multiverse. - Just to specify that it was all universes in Marvel and just not one.


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Old Post Nov 20th, 2006 06:10 PM
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