Notes: 1. This list is based off of total "power" in all its forms. Individual matchups might mean that someone in a lower tier could beat someone in a higher tier, but we're basing the list on general power levels. 2. PIS should not be considered. CIS is considered. 3. The tiers are defined by who is in them. There will necessarily be "low" and "high" characters within a tier, but the idea is to place a character as close to their peers as possible. Put another way, there can be multiple levels within the same tier. 4. Prep is not considered, nor is the status of a character in their respective universe. Intelligence can and should play a role in votes, but only in non-prep scenarios. 5. Except where specified in parentheses with (Ultimate), Ultimate Universe characters are not included to avoid confusion. The same holds true with DCnU characters.
Please note that these definitions don't exist outside KMC. They were created for a common forum vocabulary, and to give newer members a sense of the general area where certain characters are placed. Nothing more.
That said, there are not strict definitions for where one tier ends and another begins. Sometimes, however, we do have certain unofficial rules. They are:
- The Trans. Tier was created to represent anything above Surfer (who is generally considered the top of high herald) and below Skyfather. It is the only tier that is defined on either extreme by actual characters.
- "Street" generally refers to characters without powers, but not without exceptions. A skilled martial artist would likely be street. A skilled martial artist who can amp himself to metahuman levels would not. It is possible to be without a "power" and be above street (for an example: Karate Kid).
- Iron Man has traditionally been thought of as the "prototype" High Meta, but it's unclear if he is at the top of the tier, near the middle, etc. To date, his better armors (Extremis, etc.) provide a rough idea of what a character needs to clear to be in the herald tier.
As mentioned, this was created for a common forum vocabulary, and to give newer members a sense of the general area where certain characters are placed. Nothing more. Forum veterans and avid comic readers will likely disagree with certain placements, and this is expected. A perfect list cannot be made in comics, especially with so many differing opinions. Obvious misplacements and oversights can and will be corrected. Quibbles between two tiers, however, are not important for a functioning list.
Don't PM me about the list - it will be ignored. Any changes will happen organically, through discussion and the decision of various forum veterans that have been tasked with overseeing the list.
Tier 4 - Trans. Tier (Sub-Skyfather)
Amazo, Appolyon, The Asgardian Destroyer, Black Racer, Blackheart, Blaze, Circe, Count Abyss, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Doomsday (H/P), Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, Gog, Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), Jenny Quantum, The Keeper, King Thor, Magus (original), Mangog, Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Queen of Fables, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Solusandra, Stayne, Strange Visitor, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus
Tier 3 - Herald
Adam Warlock, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Cyborg Superman, Doomsday (Gog Wars), The Eradicator (Fortress Mode), Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), Quasar, Qztr, Silver Surfer, Sinestro, Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman, Swamp Thing, Talisman, Thor, Zoom II (Hunter Solomon)
Alexander Nero, Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Bizarro Superman, Black Adam, Black Bolt, Cable (Full Power), Captain Atom, Cpt. Comet, Captain Marvel (DC), Count Nefaria, Damien Hellstrom, Etrigan, Evinlea, The Fallen One, Firelord, Firestorm, The Flash II (Barry Allen), The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), The General (Shaggy Man), General Zod, Gladiator, Green Lantern (Guy, John, Katma, Kilowog), Hulk, Hyperion, Ikaris, Imperiex Probes, Juggernaut (Classic), Kid Omega, Kurse, Lobo, Loki, Magus (Post-IG), Martian Manhunter, Maxima, Metamorpho, Mon-El, Morg, Nate Grey, Orion, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, Sersi, Shaman, Skreet, Solomon Grundy, Supergirl, Supreme, Terrax the Tamer, Void (Wildstorm, no Creation Engine power), Waverider, Wildfire, Witchfire (Demon Form), Wonder Woman
Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Argent, The Atom, Aztek, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Damage, Darkness, Darwin, Death's Head 3.0, Death Metal, Doomsday (DOS), Dr. Doom, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Light II (Kimiyo Hoshi), Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Enchantress, Engineer, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Forerunner, Gammid, Gilgamesh, Gold Key Solar, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, Green Lantern (Soranik Natu), Guardian I (James Hudson), He-Man, Hector Hammond, Hercules (Immortal), Iceman, Invincible, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jack of Hearts, Jericho, Kalibak, Kang, Krypto, Lightray, Living Monolith, Loki (Ultimate), Lunatik, Madison Jeffries (BOX IV), Magneto (U), Major Force, Makkari, Man-Beast, Manchester Black, Marrina (Leviathan), Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Mr. M, Nimrod, Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Plastic Man, Power Girl, Prime, Professor X, Raven, Ravenous, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Snowbird, Starhawk, Starman, Super Skrull, Stryfe, Superboy, Tempest, Thor (Ultimate), Ultra Boy, Ultra-Humanite, Ultron, Union, Vulcan, Wendigo, Winter, Witchfire (Normal), Zauriel
Tier 2 - Meta
Abomination, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Batman 1 Million, Battalion (Jackson King), Blastaar, BOX I (Roger Bochs), Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Crystal, Death's Head II, Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Gamora, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian II (Heather Hudson), Havok, Hellstrike, Hercules (Mortal), Holocaust, The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Iron Man, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Jenny Sparks, Juggernaut (Depowered), Karate Kid, Living Laser, Machine Man, Manbot, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Mercer Drake, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Nico Minoru, Nightshade, Northstar, Ocean Master, Osiris, Pitt, Polaris, Psylocke, Radioactive Man, Sand, Sasquatch, Shassa, She-Hulk, Spiral, Starfire, Storm, Supernova, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Vision, War Machine, Windshear, Wonder Man, Zzaxx
Bane, Batgirl, Batman, Black Panther, Blacklash, Bronze Tiger, Bullseye, The Cat, Constantine Drakon, Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Hush, Kingpin, Lady Shiva, Ravager, Red Skull, Richard Dragon, Rose Tattoo, Taskmaster, Union Jack, Nightwing, Red Hood
Arsenal/Red Arrow, Baron Zemo, Black Cat, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Crossbones, Deadshot, Echo, Grifter, Joker, Mach IV, Misty Knight, Moon Knight, Nick Fury, Nomad, Peacemaker, Punisher, Ra's Al Ghul, Turok, Wildcat, Robin
Alfred, Batroc, Black Widow, Catwoman, Christine Trelane, Colleen Wing, Night Thrasher, Obregon Kaine, Penguin, The Question, Riddler, Talia, White Tiger
Gender: Male Location: Anti-Forum Elitist. I put Elitist i
Originally posted by Validus
Who all do you think should be moved up?
I said before Doomsday should probably go up one. Honestly, thats all I see.
Honestly. I do think Martian Manhunter deserves to be there, Zoom, Kilowog, The Fallen One, MOrg, Orion, WaveRider, Count Neferia, Gladiator. And some more Villians. Villians fall victim to having to lose when we know they really shouldn't. Ravange (the green guy from A. Wave) is Elite Top tier to me as well. Adam Warlock isn't Elite Top tier. I'd wager he can't get the majority on Sersi or Waverider or Void. And they are all a step below him. And Infinity Man is Trans. He's stronger than Superman with more powers than the Legion. EVen his official Bio says Unlimited strength. The General Needs to come down to Elite Top tier. Even tho he's stronger than Superman, he's just a regenerating Brick. Where Doomsday can evolve to fight Skyfather lvl beings. That's my Two cents. Some may be off a lil and that is fine. We are here to discuss.
Amazo, Black Racer, Blackheart, Circe, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, The General (Shaggy Man), Gog, Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), The Keeper, King Thor, Mangog, Mogo(?), Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Stayne, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Tanaraq, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus
Adam Warlock, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Doomsday, Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), The Silver Surfer, Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Thor
Alexander Nero, Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Black Adam, Cable (Full Power), Captain Atom, Captain Marvel (DC), Cyborg Superman, Black Bolt, The Eradicator, The Fallen One, Firelord, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), The Fury, General Zod, Gladiator, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Hyperion, Jack of Hearts, Kid Omega, Martian Manhunter, Maxima, Mon-El, Morg, Mr. M, Nate Grey, , Orion, Quasar, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, The Sentry, Sersi, Sinestro, Skreet, Supergirl, Supreme, Swamp Thing, Terrax the Tamer, Void, Waverider, Wildfire, Wonder Woman,
Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, The Atom, Bizarro Superman, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Count Nefaria, Darkness, Darwin, Death Metal, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Engineer, Etrigan, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Firestorm, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Gamora (w/Godslayer), Gilgamesh, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, He-Man, Hector Hammond, Holocaust, Hulk, Iceman, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jericho, Juggernaut (Classic), Kalibak, Lightray, Living Monolith, Lobo, Loki, Lunatik, Magneto, Major Force, Makkari, Manchester Black, Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Prime, Professor X, Raven, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Shaman, Starhawk, Super Skrull, Superboy, Tempest, Ultra Boy, Union, Vulcan, Winter,
Mid-Tier ("Iron Man")
Abomination, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Blastaar, Blob, Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Donna Troy, Doom, Emma Frost, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian I, Hercules (Mortal), The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Iron-Man, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Juggernaut (Depowered), Kang, Karate Kid, Living Laser, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Nimrod, Northstar, Osiris, Pitt, Plastic-Man, Polaris, Power Girl, Psylocke, Sand, Sasquatch, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Ultron, Vision, War Machine, Wonder Man, Zzaxx
3-D Man, Ambrose Chase, Angel, Arachne, Arana, Azrael, Beast, Black Canary, Black Tarantula, Blade, Bruenor Battlehammer, Century, Charcoal, Charlie 27, Constrictor, Creeper, Dagger, Deathlok, Deathstroke the Terminator, Doc Ock, Drizzt Do'Urden, Elixer, Falcon, Firehawk, Gambit, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Iron Fist, Jakita Wagner, Karnak, Kid Devil, Killer Croc, Klaw, Lady Deathstrike, Longshot, Luke Cage, Machine Man, Man-Bat, Mercury, Midnighter, Mister Hyde, Molly Hayes, Mysterio, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nova Richard Rider (classic), Nuke, Orka Humbug, Prometheus, Protocide, Puck, Puma, Rage, Rom, Sabretooth, Shang Chi, Silver Samurai, Speedball, Speedfreek, Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Swift, Tombstone, Triathalon, Vance Astro, Vanguard, Venom, Vermin, Victor Mancha, Vulture, Warlock (Technarchy/Phalanx), Warpath, Wizard, Wolverine, Wulfgar
Bane, Batgirl, Batman, Black Cat, Black Panther, Blacklash, Bronze Tiger, Bullseye, Captain America, The Cat, Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Joker, Kingpin, Lady Shiva, Ravager, Red Skull, Richard Dragon, Taskmaster, Union Jack, X-23
I think Mid-Tier should be called "Enhanced," so it's consistent with the other tiers in that it's Not named after a character...
Transcendent or Sub-skyfather
When I think of the "total 'power'," of a character, I find I'm basically thinking two things: 1) How much immediate damage can this character do; and 2) How much firepower would it take to stop this character?
I'm not sure if that clarifies anything, but I thought it worth a mention.
Shinier than a speeding bullet.
Last edited by Mindship on Apr 8th, 2007 at 01:04 PM
I know I said I would drop the Supes thing but I just wanted to say some things.
I can understand Superman being in the Elite tier if we are considering rank(He is DC Flagship) as well but I have a hard time believing that without that consideration he should be on the same list as Silver Surfer or GLs(Hal or Kyle) in power.
Now I know that Superman is never destined to loose to anyone under the blue sky but being unable to loose is different from power level. I think throughout the years we have seen enough from the top GLs to understand they are a league above Superman in actual power.
I think power for power Gladiator and Superman are interchangeable in power levels with each getting slight nods in different categories. I think Glads is stronger and faster than Supes while Supes is more durable and has better energy attacks.
I think Beta Ray Bill in power is actually a hair above superman. I mean without his PIS no death power Superman has never been that impressive to me on an individual basis. All his good feats come at the very end of a fight when he has been overpowered he simply manages to use one of his powers to net a win somehow or a writer has to write something else like T-VO out of the blue.
To me I think without story plot and popularity being key factors we've seen enough of other characters to understand a Top GL can do everything Superman did and more in the same scenario.
MM should do just as well or Wonder Woman should do almost as well. Captain Marvel can do just well as Superman.
So as long as we're taking rank into account then yes Superman is an elite but don't try to convince me that he isn't without it.
Edit: I just wanted to add that I understand that Superman probably reaches the cusp of the Elite even without rank but with Glads and Beta ray Bill down a tier I don't see how he would be above those guys.
__________________ sig by Rao Kal El
Last edited by Newjak on Apr 8th, 2007 at 01:47 PM