Rules:
1. Any changes made, please try to bold them to point them out to others.
2. Alphabetize the list as needed.
3. Discussion should take place before a change, and at least 2-3 others (who are relatively "unbiased" and not huge fans of a particular character) should agree with you before an official change takes place.
4. I can't update the Master List every day. Be patient, and don't whine to me about changes that need edited in.
5. If you can't get support for a proposed change, let it drop once you've made your case.
6. Have fun and enjoy. This list obviously isn't perfect, but it will end up being one of the better indicators of power anywhere by the time it's refined and added to.
Notes:
1. This list is based off of total "power" in all its forms. Individual matchups might mean that someone in a lower tier could beat someone in a higher tier, but we're basing the list on general power levels, not individual matchups.
2. PIS should not be considered. CIS may be considered depending on the character, but will be dealt with on an individual basis.
3. If a character from the Marvel Ultimate universe is in the same tier as his 616 counterpart, it will be denoted with a (U) following the character's listing. Any variation in tiers from Ultimate to 616 will receive their own entry, and ultimate will be spelled in full.
Example:
Same Tier - Captain America (U)
Different - Shang Chi, Shang Chi (Ultimate)
4. Beyond myself, Validus or leonidas is in charge. First leo then Val have done a fine job overseeing the list to this point. Changes can be made without their consent, but they can act as advisors to the list concerning character placement and rules.
....
The List
Sub-Skyfather (Transcendent)
Amazo, Appolyon, The Asgardian Destroyer, Black Racer, Blackheart, Blaze, Circe, Count Abyss, Cyborg Superman, Darkseid, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Doomsday (H/P), Dr. Fate, Dr. Manhattan, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, Gog, Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), Jenny Quantum, The Keeper, King Thor, Magus (original), Mangog, Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Queen of Fables, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Solusandra, Stayne, Strange Visitor, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Talisman, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus
Herald
High
Adam Warlock, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Doomsday (Gog Wars), The Eradicator (Fortress Mode), Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Kurse, Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), Quasar, Qztr, Silver Surfer, Sinestro, Solomon Grundy (Peak), Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman (including B/R, KC, and AS), Swamp Thing, Thor, The Void, Zoom II (Hunter Solomon)
Middle
Alexander Nero, Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Black Adam, Black Bolt, Cable (Full Power), Captain Atom, Cpt. Comet, Captain Marvel (DC), Count Nefaria, Damien Hellstrom, Etrigan, Evinlea, The Fallen One, Firelord, Firestorm, The Flash II (Barry Allen), The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), The General (Shaggy Man), General Zod, Gladiator, Green Lantern (Guy, John, Katma, Kilowog), Hulk, Hyperion, Ikaris, Imperiex Probes, Juggernaut (Classic), Kid Omega, Lobo, Loki, Magus (Post-IG), Martian Manhunter, Maxima, Metamorpho, Mon-El, Morg, Nate Grey, Orion, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, Sentry, Sersi, Shaman, Skreet, Supergirl, Supreme, Terrax the Tamer, Void, Waverider, Wildfire, Witchfire (Demon Form), Wonder Woman
Low
Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Argent, The Atom, Aztek, Bizarro Superman, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Damage, Darkness, Darwin, Death's Head 3.0, Death Metal, Doomsday (DOS), Dr. Doom (U), Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Light II (Kimiyo Hoshi), Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Enchantress, Engineer, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Forerunner, Gammid, Gamora (w/Godslayer), Gilgamesh, Gold Key Solar, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, Green Lantern (Soranik Natu), Guardian I (James Hudson), He-Man, Hector Hammond, Iceman, Invincible, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jack of Hearts, Jericho, Kalibak, Krypto, Lightray, Living Monolith, Loki (Ultimate), Lunatik, Madison Jeffries (BOX IV), Magneto (U), Major Force, Makkari, Man-Beast, Manchester Black, Marrina (Leviathan), Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Mr. M, Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Plastic Man, Prime, Professor X, Raven, Ravenous, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Snowbird, Starhawk, Starman, Super Skrull, Superboy, Tempest, Thor (Ultimate), Ultra Boy, Ultra-Humanite, Ultron, Union, Vulcan, Wendigo, Winter, Witchfire (Normal), Zauriel
Metahuman (Mid-tier "Iron Man" level)
High
Abomination, Adam Strange, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Batman 1 Million, Battalion (Jackson King), Blastaar, Blob, BOX I (Roger Bochs), Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus (U), Crystal, Death's Head II, Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian II (Heather Hudson), Havok, Hellstrike, Hercules (Mortal), Holocaust, The Human Torch (U), Invisible Woman (U), Iron-Man (U), Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Jenny Sparks, Juggernaut (Depowered), Kang, Karate Kid, Living Laser, Machine Man, Manbot, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Mercer Drake, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic (U), Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner (U), Nico Minoru, Nightshade, Nimrod, Northstar, Ocean Master, Osiris, Pitt, Polaris, Power Girl, Psylocke, Radioactive Man, Sand, Sasquatch, Shassa, She-Hulk, Spiral, Starfire, Storm, Supernova, Temugin, The Thing (U), Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Vision, War Machine, Windshear, Wonder Man, Zzaxx
High
Bane, Batgirl, Batman, Black Panther, Blacklash, Bronze Tiger, Bullseye, Captain America (U), The Cat, Constantine Drakon, Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Hush, Kingpin, Lady Shiva, Ravager, Red Skull, Richard Dragon, Rose Tattoo, Shang Chi (Ultimate), Taskmaster, Union Jack, X-23, Nightwing, Red Hood
Middle
Arsenal/Red Arrow, Baron Zemo, Black Cat, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Crossbones, Deadshot, Echo, Grifter, Joker, Mach IV, Misty Knight, Moon Knight, Nick Fury (U), Nomad, Peacemaker, Punisher, Ra's Al Ghul, Turok, Wildcat, Robin
Low
Alfred, Batroc, Black Widow, Catwoman, Christine Trelane, Colleen Wing, Night Thrasher, Obregon Kaine, Penguin, The Question, Riddler, Talia, White Tiger
Gender: Male Location: Anti-Forum Elitist. I put Elitist i
Account Restricted
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Validus
Who all do you think should be moved up?
I said before Doomsday should probably go up one. Honestly, thats all I see.
Honestly. I do think Martian Manhunter deserves to be there, Zoom, Kilowog, The Fallen One, MOrg, Orion, WaveRider, Count Neferia, Gladiator. And some more Villians. Villians fall victim to having to lose when we know they really shouldn't. Ravange (the green guy from A. Wave) is Elite Top tier to me as well. Adam Warlock isn't Elite Top tier. I'd wager he can't get the majority on Sersi or Waverider or Void. And they are all a step below him. And Infinity Man is Trans. He's stronger than Superman with more powers than the Legion. EVen his official Bio says Unlimited strength. The General Needs to come down to Elite Top tier. Even tho he's stronger than Superman, he's just a regenerating Brick. Where Doomsday can evolve to fight Skyfather lvl beings. That's my Two cents. Some may be off a lil and that is fine. We are here to discuss.
No, Red Arrow has been moved down which is accurate, but theres been a couple of Green Arrow's, one of which was Connor Hawke who easily deserves to be in that top tier.
Joker could not beat Nightwing. In fact Joker couldn't beat most people in that top group without some sort of prep.
Just noticed something. What the hell is Sersi doing in mid top-tier? Drop her down a rank or two. She's not over the people in low top-tier. Drop her ass back where it belongs.
Also, no Deadpool? I say low mid-tier.
__________________ Wanted: New sig. Something crazy, zany, and slightly evil. Will give sig credit to whoever's I sport.
Transcendent (Sub-Skyfather):
Amazo, Black Racer, Blackheart, Circe, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, The General (Shaggy Man), Gog, Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), The Keeper, King Thor, Mangog, Mogo(?), Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Stayne, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Tanaraq, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus
Top-Tier ("Herald")
High Top-Tier:
Adam Warlock, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Doomsday, Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), The Silver Surfer, Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Thor
Middle Top-Tier:
Alexander Nero, Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Black Adam, Cable (Full Power), Captain Atom, Captain Marvel (DC), Cyborg Superman, Black Bolt, The Eradicator, The Fallen One, Firelord, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), The Fury, General Zod, Gladiator, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Hyperion, Jack of Hearts, Kid Omega, Martian Manhunter, Maxima, Mon-El, Morg, Mr. M, Nate Grey, , Orion, Quasar, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, The Sentry, Sersi, Sinestro, Skreet, Supergirl, Supreme, Swamp Thing, Terrax the Tamer, Void, Waverider, Wildfire, Wonder Woman,
Low Top-Tier:
Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, The Atom, Bizarro Superman, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Count Nefaria, Darkness, Darwin, Death Metal, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Engineer, Etrigan, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Firestorm, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Gamora (w/Godslayer), Gilgamesh, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, He-Man, Hector Hammond, Holocaust, Hulk, Iceman, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jericho, Juggernaut (Classic), Kalibak, Lightray, Living Monolith, Lobo, Loki, Lunatik, Magneto, Major Force, Makkari, Manchester Black, Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Prime, Professor X, Raven, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Shaman, Starhawk, Super Skrull, Superboy, Tempest, Ultra Boy, Union, Vulcan, Winter,
Mid-Tier ("Iron Man")
High Mid-Tier:
Abomination, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Blastaar, Blob, Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Donna Troy, Doom, Emma Frost, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian I, Hercules (Mortal), The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Iron-Man, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Juggernaut (Depowered), Kang, Karate Kid, Living Laser, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Nimrod, Northstar, Osiris, Pitt, Plastic-Man, Polaris, Power Girl, Psylocke, Sand, Sasquatch, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Ultron, Vision, War Machine, Wonder Man, Zzaxx
Low Mid-Tier:
3-D Man, Ambrose Chase, Angel, Arachne, Arana, Azrael, Beast, Black Canary, Black Tarantula, Blade, Bruenor Battlehammer, Century, Charcoal, Charlie 27, Constrictor, Creeper, Dagger, Deathlok, Deathstroke the Terminator, Doc Ock, Drizzt Do'Urden, Elixer, Falcon, Firehawk, Gambit, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Iron Fist, Jakita Wagner, Karnak, Kid Devil, Killer Croc, Klaw, Lady Deathstrike, Longshot, Luke Cage, Machine Man, Man-Bat, Mercury, Midnighter, Mister Hyde, Molly Hayes, Mysterio, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nova Richard Rider (classic), Nuke, Orka Humbug, Prometheus, Protocide, Puck, Puma, Rage, Rom, Sabretooth, Shang Chi, Silver Samurai, Speedball, Speedfreek, Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Swift, Tombstone, Triathalon, Vance Astro, Vanguard, Venom, Vermin, Victor Mancha, Vulture, Warlock (Technarchy/Phalanx), Warpath, Wizard, Wolverine, Wulfgar
Low-Tier {"Street")
High Low-Tier:
Bane, Batgirl, Batman, Black Cat, Black Panther, Blacklash, Bronze Tiger, Bullseye, Captain America, The Cat, Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Joker, Kingpin, Lady Shiva, Ravager, Red Skull, Richard Dragon, Taskmaster, Union Jack, X-23
I think Mid-Tier should be called "Enhanced," so it's consistent with the other tiers in that it's Not named after a character...
Transcendent or Sub-skyfather
Herald
Enhanced
Street
When I think of the "total 'power'," of a character, I find I'm basically thinking two things: 1) How much immediate damage can this character do; and 2) How much firepower would it take to stop this character?
I'm not sure if that clarifies anything, but I thought it worth a mention.
__________________
Shinier than a speeding bullet.
Last edited by Mindship on Apr 8th, 2007 at 01:04 PM
I know I said I would drop the Supes thing but I just wanted to say some things.
I can understand Superman being in the Elite tier if we are considering rank(He is DC Flagship) as well but I have a hard time believing that without that consideration he should be on the same list as Silver Surfer or GLs(Hal or Kyle) in power.
Now I know that Superman is never destined to loose to anyone under the blue sky but being unable to loose is different from power level. I think throughout the years we have seen enough from the top GLs to understand they are a league above Superman in actual power.
I think power for power Gladiator and Superman are interchangeable in power levels with each getting slight nods in different categories. I think Glads is stronger and faster than Supes while Supes is more durable and has better energy attacks.
I think Beta Ray Bill in power is actually a hair above superman. I mean without his PIS no death power Superman has never been that impressive to me on an individual basis. All his good feats come at the very end of a fight when he has been overpowered he simply manages to use one of his powers to net a win somehow or a writer has to write something else like T-VO out of the blue.
To me I think without story plot and popularity being key factors we've seen enough of other characters to understand a Top GL can do everything Superman did and more in the same scenario.
MM should do just as well or Wonder Woman should do almost as well. Captain Marvel can do just well as Superman.
So as long as we're taking rank into account then yes Superman is an elite but don't try to convince me that he isn't without it.
Edit: I just wanted to add that I understand that Superman probably reaches the cusp of the Elite even without rank but with Glads and Beta ray Bill down a tier I don't see how he would be above those guys.
__________________
Last edited by Newjak on Apr 8th, 2007 at 01:47 PM
I agree. Anyway is this in terms of what they can do in general because i see some characters that are in tiers below that can take care of certain characters in tiers above them.
Last edited by HigH ScholaR on Apr 8th, 2007 at 03:06 PM
KMC Community Forums
Apr 8th, 2007 01:39 AM
I say low mid-tier.
