I remember seeing a similar entry on Batman on another or possibly the same site. They eventually decided he was Episcopalian or something like that. Suffice to say the people on that site read into comics far too much. lol
Kind of a mountain out of a molehill, that article; does Cap's religious views deserve that kind of scrutiny? He's never done anything really motivated by particular religious views - just good moral & human standards. And politically, he's more a liberal that Ultimate Cap (who's not in normal continuity.) And Superman may also be a "small-c" conservative, in addition to being raised Methodist or Baptist.
Still, a little food for thought when you consider the times these characters were created in. Until I saw the movie GANGS OF NEW YORK, I never thought about the prejudice Catholics endured abroad, right up until the 1960's when JFK was the first Catholic elected President. I was raised Catholic( currently nonpracticing) and can't relate to that kind of social disapproval; it seems so alien. So back then, was it that important for the flag bearing heroes to be Protestant?
__________________
"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
Ultimate Cap was slightly more religious for two main reasons
1- Millar has a Christian background which can be seen in a lot of his work ("Wanted" not included in that )
2- Millar's just a really good writer and Ultimates was the best piece of work he's done. He fleshed out the characters very well and for Steve Rogers that included the 1920's straight laced Church goer vibe. Plus Millar's run was rife with religious connotations, the most noticeable being Ultimate Thor being a Christ like Messianic figure
Well I apologise if you've taken offence but it seemed to be a clear interpretation to me. Your issue should be with Millar for making such strong references, not me
Are you a Christian? I am and personally, I had no issue with it, but that's me
^ There actually a fairly good explanation as to why I find it offensive you are probably assuming im some Christian fundie. I'll respond later im too busy right now.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Really there is no need to apologise but if I explain myself you will probably understand why I find it slightly offensive.
In Viking history Thor was seen as the main opponent to the Christian missionaires and alot of heathens (norse pagans) were persecuted and killed in the name of Christ and eventually the norse religon was outlawed.
Now I understand that you probably didn't know that and Millar didn't that but if you're passionate about the Norse religon you are also passionate about its history and somebody using Thor as a tool to promote a Christian message is a bit offensive if you look at the historical context. I could create a Jewish superhero and give him a swastika as an emblem for his costume. The fact that the swastika was originally a holy symbol for Thor doesnt change the association. Sure more people know about the Holocaust, alot more people died and its more recent but I think in principle its a similar concept.
I also understand that not all Christian are intolerant but my problem is that it seems from my observations even the so called liberal Christians really seem to think that they are better than everybody else and are just looking for an opportunity to preach about Christ. Theres nothing wrong with preaching its just that I get the impression for alot of Christians they really think they are better than everybody else. Its jut seems to me that there is the possibility that they are just using Thor as another means to preach the Christian message. Considering what happened in the past that makes me a bit miffed.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Ok that's fair enough if you have a vested interest in Norse culture, but Millar wasn't promoting anything Christian. I'd understand your taking offence if Millar had used it to preach, but he didn't. He merely ascribed Christian features to a Norse mythological character. Now you might be offended by Thor being portrayed that way, but it's perfectly within Millar's rights without intending to cause offence.
In the same way someone might fictionalise an account of the Bible and present historical figures and allegories for another historical or mythological character, I might take offence as Christian for the portrayal but at the same time respect the author's rights for artistic expression (which personally I felt was done brilliantly with Ultimate Thor). Surely you must take offence with the general presentation of Thor and the other Asgardians throughout the entirety of Marvel comics, as I highly doubt much of their portrayal ever really complied with the presentation of Thor in Norse Myth (but obviously you'd be a better judge of that than myself).
Again, I'm really sorry that you were offended but if it's any consolation, Millar probably didn't intend to offend and had what I (and many others) consider to be a brilliant portrayal of an interesting character.
LOL even before I made this post " I said to myself I bet jalek moye's going to come in and say im not bothered."
Obvoulsy its up to you to worship who you and want, but like you even said when he had a previosu discussion you described you're beliefs as something like Asatru ie no offence but you didnt really take it that serioulsy or know that much about it.
No dont get me wrong you dont even have to take it serioulsy but obvoulsy if you dont study the history and you're not passionate about it why the hell would you care?
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
lol you don't get it i couldnt give a damn about the way other worship or about what the organizations say about how it works.
I hear there call, they speak to me so i follow and worship. my focus when it comes to faith has always been indivual based and I bealive that they understand it. Sure i know the big things but I don't find the amazingl intricate knowledge needed as it is what you truly feel taht matters not what all you can say you know about.
Neither do I. I dont give a damn about how other people worship either but its almost like you want a gold star for not caring. Its like "Oh look at me I dont care."
Like I said its up to you to do want you want but obvoulsy if you dont study Norse Lore and the history why on earth would you give a damn? Basically what you're trying to tell me is that you dont care about Thors protrayal in comics, obvoulsy though im getting the impression that you think some how your opinion is more important to an extent because you have some interest in the religon.
My point is this why are you telling me you dont care as if its somehow important when you dont know about the subject were discussing? I just feel like.....um ok....thanks for that.
As far as im concerned you can worship Micky Mouse and Thor at the same time but when you dont care about subjects you dont know about its not very credible.
Can you blame me for being a bit miffed that Thor was being used as a Christian symbol after his foillowers were killed and tortured by Christians?
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on Jul 1st, 2009 at 09:40 PM
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The Religious Affiliation of Captain America(Steve)
Jun 28th, 2009 04:36 PM
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