Neither have hard-coded rules of magic though, so there's plenty of cases where a DCU mage and a Marvel mage have more in common with each other than they do another mage from their own universe.
Do you think so? I'd say DC is far more traditional wish granting like Zatanna and Myx. Whereas Marvel is far more object based.... Like Mjolnir or the Eye of Agmotto. I'll take your point about the helmet of Nabu that's coming. Also DCU is far more about light and Dark and even high divine magic like the lords of chaos and order the deadly sins and the Spectre, Angelic hosts, ghostly magic is also commonplace in DCU wheras it's not in Marvel anywhere near as much. Deadman and the Spectre, Etrigan... I know he's a demon; but, you know his backstory as well as I do.
But there's Zatanna, with hyper-flexible magic, then there's more traditionalists like Enchantress. Items, aside from Fate, there's Sargon the Sorcerer's Ruby of Life and Dr. Occult's Symbol of Seven, very much like Strange's stuff, and Wonder Woman's magic gear has similarities to Thor's (the godly stuff tend to be most similar between universes).
Conversely, Strange doesn't need his items to cast, Doom doesn't use items either or Scarlet Witch, Wiccan's power is a lot like Zatanna's when he does the repeated-speach-to-do-anything trick, as is Nico Minoru (though with an item in her case).
Nico and Zatanna are excellent examples of being closer to each other in style than either are to DC's Enchantress or Dr. Fate, or Marvel's Strange or Scarlet Witch. And in turn, Enchantress and Fate would fit in well with Marvel's mages.
Dormammu, Cyrottak, Mephisto, etc.
Magic in DC is more common and gets more focus, but they have a lot of similar stuff.
Yeah, I'd go with what Q said. I'd also note that Thor being a magic character isn't really based on Mjolnir (any more than Wonder Woman is magic due to her lasso).
I would say though that I think DC works harder to make magic an exclusive area within the world though with teams like Shadowpact or the Sentinels of Magic, and magic-centered events. Maybe it's because DC's upper structure is so magic heavy (thinking Spectre, etc). Probably also the reason that Marvel feels like the magic is 'object oriented', because characters (with obvious exceptions) are rarely exclusively 'magic' characters, and much more so part of the main hero-faring community with a magical object.
Which is kinda ironic, considering Marvel has a big name mage with three separate ongoing series (Dr. Strange), while Zatanna and Dr. Fate, the biggest names in DC mysticism, have each had a lot less (though Z's always been a JLA mainstay, which helps).
I suspect it can all be traced back to some of their once-mainstay comics like House of Mystery (over 300 issues!), and mages showing up in anthology titles (Zatanna's dad debuted in Action Comics #1, same as Superman!) gave them a stable of magic heroes and villains that lead to the creation of more of a mystic tradition.
Oh, and Vertigo / the pre-Vertigo titles like Swamp Thing. They made a lot of people interested in DC magic.
And yet Primes 'magic resistance' stopped Mxy being able to affect him.
Some stuff is similar i'll grant you, however, the Judeo Christian Angelic hosts, the ghosts etc are not.
Magic in DC is far more 'magic wand' based. That said Mjolnir is almost a big **** off magic wand. You can almost see Thor Potter shouting Expeliarmis as he points it.
Some basis for this and I agree DC's upper structure is more magic heavy, doesn't that change the rules of the Universe. In Marvel all to often people are channelling a mystic beings power, eg. Thor calls on Odin, Strange Zom etc. In DC they actually use the intrinsic magic rules of the Universe to change it, e.g. Zatanna.
Even though I disagree with it because there is evidence to the contrary, the -most current- info states that Mxy, and the entire 5th dimension, are magical in nature:
DC has loads of magic objects in their universe as well. Both Pre and post crisis has loads of objects. DC also has homo magi, sort of like mutants Marvel has.
The specific other-worldly sides are different, but Marvel still has plenty of other-worldly hosts with their own types of beings in different realms.
It is? Magic wands are pretty rare in DC magicians (Zatanna and Zatara occasionally use 'em, but only for show, they don't need them), a lot of them use hand-gestures or some type of other device.
Scarlet Witch, Wiccan, Nico Minoru and her parents, Selene, Pixie. There's tons who don't rely on power from higher beings, and there are people with the literal mutant power 'can use magic'.
Stephen Strange himself and similar casters, while he often calls upon the powers of others, also can do many many spells entirely on his own.
And on the flip side, Dr. Fate (Nabu), Enchantress (unknown patron as her origin), Manitou Raven (a host of spirits), Felix Faust, all do on the DC side. The lords of magic empowering people is a focus of the Hawk & Dove characters.
Scarlet Witch alters probabilities, it was originally described as a kind of quantum magic, then she got training from Agatha and performs spells. Scarlet Witch is tapping into something, it was called Chaos magic then this was retconned. Her mutant power is also unclear how mystical it is, as it seems to be sometimes pure reality warping and some people believe it stems totally from her... Me her powers and back story have become such a cluster****, a bit like Myx where people like you (and I) would prefer it to be based on pseudo science extrapolations of Flatland; but, get magic shoved down our throats.
I think you misunderstood what I meant in a couple of ways, Chaos and Order in DC are very like the Inbetweener and Chaos and Order in Marvel. Except when order manifests itself as an empty cardboard box. However in Marvel you get a lot of objects with extra dimensional (magical realm links) to the Universe. Often the magic is external to said Universe e.g. Cyttorak, Cthon etc, etc, Marvel puposely has gone at times for a Lovecraftian approach, early issues of Strange show this clearly. The magic is of a different flavour to that of Dr. Fate due to this.
Magic in DC is often Universally intrinsic, although this is not always the case. An example of an intrinsically magical place is Sorcerers world.
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Last edited by Daemon Seed on May 16th, 2011 at 10:07 PM
Not all are, true and no one has said they are. One of the clearest examples of this pre-crisis was Darkseid stealing mystical power from people and objects in the Great Darkness saga.
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Last edited by Daemon Seed on May 16th, 2011 at 10:06 PM
It probably has more, eg. the Star Heart.. However the Star Hearts very existence should reduce intrinsic Universal Magic in DC, in fact it doesn't as things like Sorcerers World highlight.
I wasn't no, I see Vertigo as distinct still. Although with the re-introduction of Swampy and JC (albeit retconned and separate versions) it's not as distinct as it has been since the imprint was created.
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