Gender: Male Location: Dreaming...Or am I living...
Patriotism
Patriotism is a funny thing. It has and still causes wars. It allows dictatorships and other evil governments to survive. It has been the root of major injustices and genocides. But it still is considered a positive for many Americans at least (I can not speak for people from other countries). Here in America Patriotism has risen to a competitive level. Everyone has to fly their little american flags from their cars and heaven forbid if the neighbor down the street has a bigger flag waving in their front yard. Yet I do not believe that is what it is really about. I believe patriotism is questioning and analysing and not supporting you country or leader blindly. Patriotism is loving your country, not your leader. And sometimes loving your country means disagreeing and speaking up and saying that something is not right. Loving your country can mean many different things but the one thing it does not mean is Blindly following and just being a sheep.
Thank you for reading my ramblings.
Any other opinions?
I agree with you. I get told sometimes that I am un-American because I don't have ten flags hanging out of my car's windows, and because I don't pledge allegience to a flag on a regular basis. That's just lame--being American is about loving freedom and real democracy, not following some nimrod blindly wherever he leads us.
Gender: Male Location: Dreaming...Or am I living...
thats what I say.
My family was going to dinner last night and we were drinving by like a housing complex and they had a big banner hanging over the wall that said "we support our persident and our troops" with like an american flag in the background.
Thats just retarted. I mean if you do, good for you, keep it to your selfand don't go preaching it. Because all that it says to me is I am ingnorant and think that I everyone has to think like me or your not patriotic.
Competitive patriotism is obviously distasteful to European minds who have had too close an experience with facism over time.
However, this statement:
"Patriotism is loving your country, not your leader"
Worries me.
On a basic level, I agree, and I know a lot of people around here like to make a lot of seperating leader and country.
But anyone who has seen or vaguely felt the effect of the Loyalists in Northern Ireland has cause to get the screaming heebie-jeebies when this statement gets made. Here we have people that kill British soldiers and policemen and beyoind, on the idea that they are more loyal to the country than the country's leadership is.
People who identify themselves as patriots beyond the administration have done some of the most horiffic things in history.
I am far more comfortable with a set-up where patriotism, rigidly defined, is, in full extent, not compatible with disagreeing with your current administration. I think a democratically elected leadership is endemically a part of a country and cannot be seperated. People who hold patriotism to a concept beyond that of the prosaic... scare me.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on May 23rd, 2004 at 08:30 PM
Interesting quote I remember from the film "Paths of Glory".
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
Always made sense to me. It seems people hide behind patriotism as a way to say hateful things to other nations and other people. They think that because they blindly love their country that it makes them a good person.
Gender: Male Location: Dreaming...Or am I living...
Yea Now that i think about it more, You make a very good point Ush. What I should have said was something more along the lines of
"Patriotism Is doing whats best for your country and that is always not what your leader says"
Because war is never good for any country.
I believe that as a lorry driver, I have far more in common with a Chinese lorry driver than i do with a British banker... I don't believe in Nationalism, I don't regard myself as a Patriot, but I will stand up for what I feel is right... no matter who I'm standing against... I don't believe in party politics, and i don't believe we should have national borders of any kind... but i don't believe in the EU, because that's simply replacing one nation with another....
Hey if your patriotic great if your not great, doesn't really matter, its about the person you are not how much you love your country (I love my country)
Well, now this is just becoming a continual outpourting of anti-patriotism! It does not do to ignore its positive effects on a country. The most successful countries, over all time, have also been the most patriotic.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
What IS patriotism? Why love your country just because it is YOURS?
Blind faith of any kind – be it political, national or religious – has led people to do the most horrible things throughout history. Nazism, witch-burnings, wars, ethic cleansings etc.
I’m happy to live in Denmark. But, hey. I know the culture and language and the price of milk. I don’t LOVE Denmark, as it is – let’s face it – just a geographic region with boundaries defined by human beings. And I’ll criticise the leadership if I disagree with it.
Who benefits from patriotism?
How can you love your country and not it’s leaders? The leaders are an integral part of what makes the country in question what it is, both in regards to foreign and domestic relations.
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
Gender: Female Location: in a double decker bus...
Absolutely agreeing Ush!
It's one thing to be proud to be British, or American, but it's quite another when that pride leads you to violence and abuse. Many wars are fought for Patriotism. Perhaps if we didn't have countries, there would be no wars.
I would say love people not land. A country is not defined by territory, but by the ideals and beliefs of a collected people. If you allow pride of a country to cloud your judgment, try to remember that bushes and trees do not want, need or even know your pride.
KMC Community Forums
May 23rd, 2004 07:19 PM
And a T-Shirt too. I'm gonna start an anti-Patriotism business in America. Wish me luck! 
