Watching FOTR and TTT i was under the impression that Aragorn was Isildurs son but then i realized that Isildur died 3,000 yrs ago right after the war so then Aragorn cant be his son but my question is, we know that eventually Aragorn assumes the role of king but How come nobody stepped up to take leadership before Aragorn? Why didnt his father and ancestor became King?
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"A lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths." Deep Throat.
Aragorns(II) father is Arathorn(II), iam not sure who Arathorns father is but heir means hes of the same blood not necessarily his father but ill see what i can find out Arathorns father... (II)= the 2nd
Heir of Isildur through thirty-nine generations. = aragorn
Isildur and his 4 sons were all slain in the disaster of the galladen fields. I am not sure, but at least 1 of them had a child before this happened and then their mother and teh child went into hiding as I understand it...I'll try to find more later.
boy thats a question that requires a huge answer. when isildur, his father elendil, and isildurs brother fled the destruction of numenor they established to realms, arnor and gondor. arnor was ruled by elendil in the north and gondor ruled by isildur and his brother (forget his name) well after the last allaince isildur being the only surviving one left gondor in the hands of his nephew and went to rule arnor. he was cut down in the gladen fields but his son was left in imladris. well his son valandil took up the rule of the north. after many generations the kingdom of arnor diminished split up and was finally thrown down by the witchking of angmar, but the heir indured and remained in his kingdom as kind of a refugee. well in gondor the line of the heir failed (earnur being the last king killed by the witchking in minus morgul). so the stewards took over rule and did so for hundreds of years. hopefully that helps. isildurs family tree only had one branch still going and that was in the north. thus aragorn is the only remaining heir.
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and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.
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Thank you so much Eezy!!
I'm starting over, do not mistake me for my brother - he has left. Eezy has convinced me to come back, give him some credit.
sorry I was just bored and found this topic, can the steward deny the claim of the thrown to the King?
as one of the heirs did in fact try and claim kingship but was denied
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"In the year of our Lord 1314, patriots of Scotland, starving and outnumbered, charged the fields at Bannockburn. They fought like warrior poets. They fought like Scotsmen. And won their freedom."
Claimed the Kingship? You mean Arvedui, last king of Arthedain?
He was married to queen Fíriel, the only surviving child of King Ondoher, the dead king of Gondor, AND a descendant of Isildur (btw, Isildur was primarily king of the Northern Kingdom of Arnor, not Gondor! He also ruled Gondor together with his brother Anárion - Isildur's stronghold was Minas Morgul while Anárion had Minas Tirith -, but moved to Arnor, and all his descendants also ruled Arnor, not Gondor), but the new king was a certain Earnil, a successful captain of the army, who was also a descendant of king Telumehtar and hence closer related to the line of Gondor than Isildur.
After his son, Earnur, had died, the stewards ruled instead of the kings, but still in the name of the "true" king, Earnur. Of course this was a little strange because Earnur disappeared in the beginning of the 21st century of the Third Age (2050 I think?) and the stewards still ruled until 3019, but in the opinion of the Gondorians, the Stewards "represented" the kings of Gondor while the Dúnedain of the North were only the remnants of a long-lost, broken, splintered kingdom who probably didn't even want to be kings - the Stewards were mostly reliable and intelligent rulers, and the Dúnedain didn't seek for power and wealth... just read Aragorn's dialogues in the first book, it makes the point of the Dúnedain quite clear I think.
__________________ Life is complex: it has both real and imaginary components.
In case anyone can't picture this, here's Aragorn's Family Tree:
Aragorn II Dunedain
Arathorn II
Arador
Argonui
Arathorn I
Arassuil
Arahad II
Aravorn
Aragost
Arahad I
Araglas
Aragorn I
Aravir
Aranuir
Arahael
Aranarth
Arvedui Arthedain
Araphant
Araval
Arveleg II
Arvegil
Argeleb II
Araphor
Arveleg I
Argeleb I
Malvegil
Celebrindor
Celepharn
Mallor
Beleg
Amlaith
"In the year of our Lord 1314, patriots of Scotland, starving and outnumbered, charged the fields at Bannockburn. They fought like warrior poets. They fought like Scotsmen. And won their freedom."
but as Cyn said was quite the answer to my question
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"In the year of our Lord 1314, patriots of Scotland, starving and outnumbered, charged the fields at Bannockburn. They fought like warrior poets. They fought like Scotsmen. And won their freedom."
erm, kinda bumping this thread up. I'm in the mood for typing long stuff.
Exa, feel free to correct some of my details.
Long story short:
3,000 years pass between the Prologue and the War of the Ring (Ring Quest), 3,019 years to be exact.
Here's how it goes: remember those various references to "Numenor" and the "Numenorians"? (i.e. "the blood of Numenor is now spent; it's pride and dignity forgotten").
***Numenor was an island nation of Men; it is the "Atlantis of Middle-earth"--> this is more than just a small connection; the ELVISH (Quenya) name for Numenor is "Atalante", making it an obvious parallel to Numenor.
Anyway, remember that the Second Age ends and the Third Age begins with the first downfall of Sauron, as seen in the Prologue.
During the Second Age, about 100 years before it ended or so, Numenor sank into the Sea in a catacylsm (it's very complicated, but that will do).
The survivors were those who heeded warnings of disaster early, and were out on ships when it happened. The great storm that resulted blew their ships to Middle-earth, and they founded the "kingdoms in exile" (so called because they were 'exiled' now that Numenor was destroyed).
**The surviving Numenoreans that arrived in Middle-earth were now called the Dunedain (from Elvish; Dun=west, and edain=men, thus Dunedain=Men of the West, because Numenor was in the middle of the great ocean to the WEST of Middle-earth).
These first survivors are the ones that fight Sauron, but their descendants are just called Dunedain. You may remember this from some scenes where they talk about Aragorn being a Dunedain Ranger. Aragorn being one of their descendants.
***The leader of the survivors was Elendil: he's the King that Sauron kills in the Prologue.
Elendil's TWO sons were Isildur and Anarion, and the three of them led the surviving Dunedain.
They founded *TWO* kingdoms for the Dunedain in Middle-earth, along the coast: Arnor in the north (the Shire was part of it) and Gondor in the south.
Elendil was the High-King of the United Kingdom of Arnor and Gondor; both were one big country.
Elendil also directly ruled Arnor, while Isildur and Anarion jointly ruled Gondor.
***During the War of the Last Alliance against Sauron (in the Prologue) Anarion died in battle before the final battle, so he dies before the movie starts. Then Elendil dies, so Isildur is the last High-king.
*****Here's what the movies don't really explain: Anarion had a son, Meneldil.
Isildur decided that he still couldn't directly rule everything, so he decided that he would ride back north to rule Arnor, while leaving Meneldil as King of Gondor.
Problem was, on his way back north, Isildur and his men were ambushed (as seen in film) during the Disaster of the Gladden Fields. Isildur himself had four sons, but three were with him during the ambush so they died too. His only living son was the young Valandil, who at the time was in Rivendell.
So Valandil son of Isildur became King of Arnor, and Meneldil son of Anarion was King of Gondor. They were first cousins. But while they were never hostile to each other, King Meneldil said he didn't think Valandil should be king of both countries; so Arnor and Gondor split into two separate countries.
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So for the next roughly 2,000 years, the Heirs of Isildur ruled Arnor, and the Heirs of Anarion ruled Gondor; ***The catch is that Isildur and Anarion were brothers, and that before the split their faither Elendil ruled a united kingdom.
Arnor was never powerful and only got weaker over time, while Gondor grew in power. So Sauron secretly sent the Lord of the Nazgul to create a dummy evil country to border Arnor called "Angmar", earning him the name the "Witch-king of Angmar".
Then things happened fast: in the year 1974 of the Third Age, Arnor, which had been shrinking for centuries, was destroyed as a country and it's last King, Arvedui, was killed; But Arvedui had a son and everyone knew it, it's just that so many died in the climactic fight with Angmar that their weren't really enough people left in Arnor to make a country. (Angmar also got destroyed, although the Witch-king escaped). Arnor was destroyed, but the Heirs of Isildur lived on as the wandering Dunedain Rangers. They were (potential) kings with no country.
Gondor got more powerful over the years, but about year 2,000 of the Third Age, there was a King (Earnur) who had no children who decided to meet the challenge of the Lord of the Nazgul in single combat; he died ("never by the hand of man shall he (The Witch King) fall").
Thus, the Heirs of Anarion, rulers of Gondor for 2,000 years, died out with no survivors.
The Ruling Stewards came to power after this, from a family of prominent nobles who were traditionally aides to the King.
****So you see the Ruling Steward didn't rule in the place of the loss of Isildur, they ruled in the place of the loss of the Heirs of Anarion.
So for 1,000 years before the events of LOTR, Gondor was a kingdom without a king.
*********But Isildur (of Arnor) and Anarion (of Gondor) were brothers, and their father Elendil had been the king of both countries. Because Anarion's line had ended, only a descendant of Isildur could also be held to be the only heir of Elendil---> In the books, Aragorn is called "The Heir of ELENDIL" as much as he is called the "Heir of Isildur".
So at the end of ROTK, Aragorn is not crowned "King of Gondor" he is crowned "King of the Reunited Kingdom of Arnor and Gondor".
Using the resources of still-intact Gondor, Aragorn rebuilds Arnor in the north. The Reunited Kingdom is a vast empire ruled by Aragorn, that included all lands that once belonged to Arnor and Gondor at the greatest extent, excluding only Rohan to which it was permanently allied (Rohan used to be part of Gondor called Calenardhon before it was given away as a gift to the Horsemen of the Wild, the Eotheod, who were then called the Rohirrim and named their new country Rohan; Gondor wanted to creat a new buffer country in a sparsely populated region; Rohan only got created 500 years before LOTR begins).
Brilliant text
excellent explanation, actually the best I've ever read as it has really everything in it, and all in a logical syntax
Not necessary I fear ^^
but of course I cant leave such an interesting thread without adding some pointless comments
^^ Elendil was btw the last Lord of Andúnie, the haven of the few remaining elf-friends in Númenor; he was a descendant of the ?fourth King of Númenor (not sure bout the number but it was either the daughter of the third or the fourth king (who was also called Elendil) who wedded Elatan of Andúnie, the father of the first Lord ^^)
Hence, Elendil's (and Aragorn's) ancestors can be found among the Lords of the Edain in the First Age; they were even descendants of a "lower goddess", Melian, and related to all houses of the Eldar.
... young, yes, he was still a child when his father died; he was born in the year Gil-galad and Elendil made the Last Alliance.
I think Arnor's Downfall already started when the realm of Arnor was split into three parts - Cardolan and Rhudaur were never strong, and then the parts even waged war against each other because Arthedain had all three Palantíri of the North
Interesting that Gondor, being surrounded by enemies, directly next to Mordor, Rhûn and Haradwaith, survived so long and was always still a strong country while Arnor in the beginning had nearly no enemies near them and still the realm fell, its splitting being the only reason why Angmar was so successful; the last Kings of Rhudaur and Cardolan even supported Angmar or were dependant.
*laughs*
1974? 1975? I think Arvedui died in the spring of the next year
^^ Arvedui was married to ?Fíriel, the daughter of King Ondoher of Gondor, but Ondoher afair died in the plague, and so did his sons ?Artamir and ?Faramir -- so Arvedui and Fíriel claimed the lordship over Gondor, but the Gondorians refused it and instead made some successful warlord the next king.
2050 fool, this Earnur... he was only interested in fighting, never had a wife or children ^^ and he was a lil too proud, too
^^
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KMC Community Forums
Dec 5th, 2003 01:17 AM
I'm in the mood for typing long stuff. 
I think Arvedui died in the spring of the next year
fool, this Earnur... he was only interested in fighting, never had a wife or children ^^ and he was a lil too proud, too 
