Re: Full Power Siver Surfer Vs Full Power Superman
This has been done a million times, use the search function. but in general, surfer takes the majority due to superman having some very well known exploitable weaknesses (red solar and kryptonite radiation) that surfer can easily reproduce.
Cosmic awareness means surfer knows about said weaknesses in microseconds.
on the flip side, surfer doesn't really have any achilles heels for supes to use against him.
Isn't there a Superman who in the future reaches the full potential of his power (after spending like a thousand years inside a yellow sun) and becomes immune to both Kyptonite and effects of Red Sun radiation?
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The only versions of Superman that could defeat SS are: PC Supes, Golden Superman, Superman 1M, and composite Superman.
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you're thinking of the version of superman that appeared in DC 1 million. That version of superman had no on panel feats of his own. (the only thing he DID do was crush an already beaten solaris with a lantern ring.)
despite his time in the sun, there was still a VERY real concern by everyone present that Kryptonite would kill him- in fact Vandal Savage and Solaris themselves conspired to kill him by firing what they THOUGHT was a large kryptonite projectile into the heart of the sun. They succeeded, but that "kyptonite" was actually a disguised lantern ring.
Theres no source anywhere that says that version of superman was immune to kryptonite.
While it was never stated, KC Supes was practically immune to kryptonite because he had been under the sun for too long(a good 20 more years than current Superman), Golden Superman spent 16,000 years in the core of the sun, so I have to say I doubt kryptonite would work on him.
PC superman is even worse off than REGULAR superman is, due to the existence of gold kryptonite in the PC continuity. Gold kryptonite will IMMEDIATELY, PERMANENTLY depower superman into a regular human.
If you're thinking "well, PC supes could still hit him first or something" remember that surfer has top speeds hundreds of times faster than lightspeed but can also go intangible or shrink to submicroscopic size and wreck superman from the inside.
"golden" superman from DC 1 million is still vulnerable to kryptonite.
Superman 1 million still stores solar energy from the super sun in his cells like a battery- punching through a temporal distortion in DC 1 million drained him so badly he turned into an old man and nearly died. Surfer can EASILY just rip the damn energy out of him forcibly and do the same thing.
uh, it was stated by solaris- a stellar supercomputer who had fought that version of superman before and who should know better that kryptonite WOULD kill him. in fact, not only was solaris convinced, so was every DC hero present.
did you read DC 1 million? it's pretty obvious that the plan is to kill superman by firing a kryptonite bullet into the sun. If that "wouldn't work", why was everyone involved panicked as hell about letting that happen?
edit: KC superman isn't relevant, since KC superman is an alternate version, much like the superman of earth-2 or superboy. different versions of kryptonite effect different kryptonians differently.
The GOLDEN superman is the mainstream continuity superman, just further into that earth's future.
Last edited by Space M ummy on Nov 27th, 2008 at 06:18 PM
PC Supes can still hit him first. He is much faster than Surfer, he could beat him to death before he pulled out an offense. Thanos beat Surfer to death, and it took him less than 15 punches. PC Supes being vastly stronger than Thanos and fast enough to blitz surfer gives him the win.
Which was never actually shown.
Well admittingly he has the smallest chance out of all whom I mentioned.
As for composite Superman..he has the combined powers of 3 pc kryptonians..plus the powers of the legion..which among other things will allow him to split into 3 equally powered giant versions of himself.
Last edited by Surtur on Nov 27th, 2008 at 06:24 PM
Yes, I did read it. Wasn't it said at the end that golden superman had been behind the fake kryptonite? That he did it so that Solaris would drop its guard?
Here,from wiki:
It is then revealed that a secret conspiracy - forewarned by the trouble in the 20th century, mainly in that Huntress, inspired by the time capsules students in her class were currently making, realized they had centuries to foil the plot- has spent the intervening centuries coming up with a foolproof plan for stopping Solaris. Their actions included replacing the hidden kryptonite with a disguised Green Lantern ring - with which the original Superman emerges from the sun and finishes Solaris.
I know its a diff superman, my point was if he can become immune after 20 years, it isn't a big leap for Supes to become immune after thousands of years in the sun.
Also stuff like even current Superman being able to shrug off nukes while surrounded by kryptonite..being able to survive going through a red sun even though he was dragged through a field of kryptonite right before that..it shows he's built up a bit of a resistance
I'm aware.
Last edited by Surtur on Nov 27th, 2008 at 06:32 PM
read what I posted again. surfer has top speeds exceeding lightspeeed by hundreds of times, and reaction times in the nanosecond range. speedblitzing him is nearly impossible.
Given that, Surfer's DEFENSE is superior to superman's in that he can simply will himself intangible or shrink down to submicroscopic size to avoid superman's assault.
Cosmic awareness means that surfer instantly knows all of superman's abilities and weaknesses, but the opposite isn't true. Superman, even PC superman, is at a disadvantage.
not shown, I'll give you- but assumed to be the case by solaris, who was inarguably the most intelligent person present, had been formulating the plan over thousands of years, and had fought that version of superman before. It's a reasonable assumption then that K-nite will have an effect, since EVERYONE in that comic assumed it to be the case.
There's no scan anywhere that says that version of superman is immune to kryptonite. That's pure forum speculation based on KC superman who was "becoming" immune, and ignoring earth-2 superman who was of a similar age and NOT immune.
That version of superman would likely have an edge then, though there's still the possibility that he might still lose, given the existence/abilities of gold-k which permanently depower PC kryptonians.
The tricking of solaris was a joint effort, thought up by batman and MM, I think.
If superman was simply immune, why would you need to take the only remaining lantern ring (as was the case then), disguise it as kryptonite, and hide it for thousands of years in an attempt to fool solaris?
using real kryptonite would have been just as effective in getting solaris to "drop it's guard." Again, NOWHERE does it say that version of superman is immune to kryptonite. In fact it says the opposite. a kryptonite bullet into the sun will kill that superman.
it IS a big leap, since it's a different superman entirely. kryptonite doesn't work at all on superboy prime, and PC superman has an entire range of kryptonites (gold, blue, etc) that work on him, but not any of the other supermen. The Kal-L of earth 2 is also still vulnerable to kryptonite even though he's of a similar age as KC superman, though as he notes, he's not vulnerable to the K-nite of earth-1.
Dude you don't get how insanely fast PC Supes was. He was fast enough to cross the entire universe in the blink of an eye. He was going so fast he was breaking down dimensional barriers and threatening the multi-verse to the point spectre had to stop him. He could casually go back in time on speed alone as a baby.
Surfer can move at hundreds of times the speed of light? Current Superman can fly that fast in space.
As insane as it sounds, PC Supes can blitz surfer.
He needs to consciously do all that, he won't have time. PC Supes is vastly faster.
Superman doesn't need to know his weaknesses, surfer can be physically beat to death..so thats all he needs to do.
Read my other post, it was a conspiracy or something, all set up to stop Solaris.
Except this guy would be 3 times stronger and faster than a pc kryptonian, which means surfer gets blitzed and his head punched off in the first nanosecond. He'd also have planetary level transmutation powers and could turn any gold k created into something harmless at speeds too fast for Surfer to react.
He could then use his legion powers to blast his own body with yellow sun radiation, thus amping himself even more..not that he'd need it.
Last edited by Surtur on Nov 27th, 2008 at 06:40 PM
I know exactly how fast superman is, but you seem to be underrating the surfer. here's a scan from the first page of the respect thread- which you don't seem to have read- surfer traveling a HALF MILLION light years, in seconds.
and surfer can travel back in time or across dimensions under his own power any time he wishes. your point?
I gave you a lowball figure. see above where surfer travels 500,000 lightyears in seconds. current superman is nowhere near that, and any difference in speed between the two is so slight as to be negligible, if not an outright advantage to surfer.
eventually you're going to have to back up this lunacy with hard scans, and it's not going to go well.
given that I've already put a serious hole in your "supes is faster" theory, surfer's reaction times are just as good as his travel speed. we're talking micro and nanoseconds to not only formulate, but react.
you're not blitzing the surfer without MASSIVE PIS.
physically beating to death an intagible object that's as fast or faster than you would be quite a feat.
it was a conspiracy known only to about three people. Everyone else in the known universe assumed superman was still vulnerable to kryptonite, including those who had fought with him, against him, and gained their powers FROM him. Again, if you're going to keep claiming he's immune, start backing it up with scans rather than flawed speculation.
Gold K immediately and permanently depowers kryptonians. getting hit with the radiation in any form (which surfer could emit in a variety of ways, from blasting him with it to turning to entire battlefield into it) would be an instant and permanent loss of kryptonian powers. and don't get me started on how good surfer's transmutation and matter manipulation abilities are.
see above. there's no coming back from a Gold K depowering. it's permanent. That being said, composite superman is a big question mark.
You don't seem to get it, half a million lightyears in seconds does not even begin to compare to crossing the entire universe in seconds. It doesn't compare to his feat with the Spectre.
Point was he could do it as a baby and has only grown more powerful
PC supes is vastlyfasterthan 500,000 light-years in seconds. Sorry, he threatened the multi-verse with his speed and crossed the universe in seconds, that is a lot more than 500,000 light years.
Go look in the pc kryptonian respect thread, it's all there. Surfer is not faster than PC supes.
You haven't put a hole in it though. You don't seem to understand that 500,000 lightyears in seconds is extremely fast, but it doesn't compare to crossing the universe in seconds or going so fast you nearly break into heaven.
You just need a massive speed advantage, which Superman has.
Except he won't be going intangible, he'll literally be down in 1-2 punches. Thanos downed him in a little over a dozen punches, Superman being vastly stronger and faster than Thanos? Surfer won't even be able to think "go intangible" before he is knocked out.
What I'm saying is that we don't know if he's immune or not. So the whole kryptonite angle might not get surfer the win. You do know its moot anyways? Seeing how large a boost Superman gets from going in the sun for a few seconds, with 16,000 years in the sun he's going to beat the hell out of the surfer before he even forms a thought process.
I just meant if he tried to turn objects into gold k it wouldn't be the best bet. Still, against someone who is 3 times faster than pc supes? it won't matter how much kryptonite surfer can create. Also composite supes has mon'el's powers, which means green k wouldn't completely strip away his powers, and with the other legionnaires powers as well the lead weakness wouldn't be an issue.
I wasn't saying use yellow sun radiation to give himself powers back, but as long as he has his powers he could use it to amp himself.
Last edited by Surtur on Nov 27th, 2008 at 08:00 PM
Re: Re: Full Power Siver Surfer Vs Full Power Superman
^yeah that
and even if SS fought Supe fair & square (without using Supe's weaknesses) he'd still win. both got similar strength & speed but SS's invulnaribility is a notch above the likes of Supe, not to mention SS has far more offensive options
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Nov 27th, 2008 08:35 AM
