It's funny that we have such a dichotomy of perspectives which seem to have so much in common.
I have considered myself Liberal for about 3-4 years. I have been angry at Conservatism for its rather oppressive idealogies, and obsession with tradition and the status quo. My anger escalated to levels where I resented anyone for being Republican, eventually even starting to have a different perspective of religious people.
Where I once thought religion=good, I then thought religion=bad. Because of Liberal Media, and Conservative Media (such as Fox News), I simply thought all Conservatives were closed minded, pig headed, deluded, greedy, selfish, money hungry oppressors. I hated Conservatives, and thier unsupported, biased, blind and harmful idealogies.
But as time progressed, I learned that it's not that black and white. Conservative people in general, are not these hateful, restricted, blind, stupid zombies. In fact, many of them are rather warm, smart, and even open minded people. They are no different then myself in the long run.
So I went from one conclusion to another. Conservatives are not motivated by greed or hate.
I decided that Conservatives are motivated by Fear.
Now, please understand this is a generalization. I know not all Conservatives are motivated by constant fear, but most active Conservatives portray actions and speech which lead to me conclude so.
Conservative Christians seem to be motivated by the Fear of Hell, Fear of God's wrath, Fear of punishment, and seem to respect Fear as a very necessary tool.
Conservative Atheists seem to be motivated by fear of Change. Fear of progression, fear of deviation from the status quo. I am very convinced of this.
I have attended the School of Visual Arts, a very Liberal school in NYC, for 3 years. And you know what ? Liberal people are just as judgemental and closed minded as Conservatives are.
I have come onto KMC forums, and other communities, and seen that Liberals insult other people just as much as Conservatives. Liberal people attack, judge, accuse, lie, and cause just as much negativity and pain as Conservatives have.
Liberals can be just as superficial and harmful as any Conservative on Earth.
The whole Hollywood "thin is in" bullshit, has been propaganded by Liberal trendsetters. Conservatives had almost nothing to do with that, in fact, Conservatives were on the opposite end of the spectrum, denouncing sexuality in general.
Liberals have used humor, money, media, culture, art, and other forms of social propaganda to attack not only political conservatives, but famous and non-famous persons who never asked to be put on that spot.
Liberals may tend to be against homophobia and racism, far more than Conservatives are, but Liberals still subscribe to superficiality, another form of discrimination.
Where I once thought Liberals were a type of people who promote understanding, open mindedness, and fair perspective...I then realize that Liberals have thier own unjust biases, and attack just as unfairly as Conservatives do.
I came to the Conclusion that Liberals are motivated by Anger.
Anger and Fear. Two Paths. None of which I want to take.
So where I once considered myself a proud Liberal, I can no longer stand on their side. I cannot stand by a power of people who are hypocrites, and who have done, and still do just as much harm as the other side does.
And I will never consider myself a Conservative either, for I have already stated why in plenty other threads.
I am either both, or neither now.
The dichotomy is an illusion, because Liberals and Conservatives are both the same.
Both liberals and conservatives can be mean, judgemental and rude. Honestly, I don't think conservatives are afraid of change any more than I think liberals are motivated by anger. I think that it's people with a set of values who think that their particular way of doing things is the best for everyone. On race, for example. Everyone agrees that racism is wrong, no? But liberals may advocate affirmative action as a positive way to tear down racial barriers, while a conservative may think that affirmative action does exactly the opposite. A liberal may want to provide everyone with government-sponsored health care, while a conservative may want to leave it privatized, with only small funding for those who who can't support themselves.
Both generally have good intentions, and want the same thing, they just don't agree on the best way to attain it.
__________________ In case we find ourselves starting to believe all the Anti-American sentiment and negativity, we should remember England 's Prime Minister Tony Blair's words during an interview. When asked by one of his Parliament members why he believes so much in America , he said:
"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out."
Conservatism and Liberalism are social constructs, and people only adhere to the dichotomy when they think its the only way to further thier own goals.
In the end we are all human, and are capable of compassion and cruelty the same.
I just no longer consider myself Liberal, as I have seen the destructive sides of it.
I think both sides have their good and bad parts to them. I lean conservative more often, however there are many things that I support on the liberal agenda. The two sides have lost a good deal of their meaning and idealogy though, and the sides of issues end up being stacked up under one or the other based on who takes side first.
The global warming debate, no one even cared about it that much over here is the U.S. until "An inconvienient truth", and its predeccessing (and possibly motivating) movie The Day after Tommorrow. Liberal grabbed the save the earth banner, and somewhat arrogantly conservatives denied the problem.
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Statement: While this is probably the single best post that Urizen has made on KMC, FeceMan believes that it is not so simple to divide the two ideologies into motivation based on emotional category.
Statement: Some conservatives are motivated too by anger--righteous indignation at immorality and corruption. Some liberals are presumably motivated too by fear--the fear of seeming intolerant or being restrictive.
__________________ Ask me about my "obvious and unpleasant agenda of hatred."
I remember reading on a website dedicated to the study of human intelligence...they had a massive database of IQs with attributes of everyone that had registered and taken the poll at the end. There were a few things about these statistics that were derived from this IQ study.
All of this is based on averages..of course.
Democrats and Republicans had the same IQ, on average.
Gemini's had the highest IQ by a significant margin. They could give no logical reason for why "gemini's had such a significant IQ difference.(Since there were thousands of people who took the test...this was a huge statistical spike....I forgot which sign had the lowest IQ though.)
People with Masters degrees had a higher IQ than any other educational demographic. In fact, people with doctorates were closer in IQ to those who had bachelors degrees-(people with bachelors degrees came in third...right behind those with doctorates.)
So, is this thread a veiled Pro-Ralph Nader thread. Because, even though I am for a three-party system, the man who killed the Corvair will never get my vote!
That's because liberal and conservative are a public relations ploy by the big buisness that owns this country. A country founded of, by and for the benefit of the top 3% of it's citizens, because they own everything. It was the same in the 1770's and it will be the same in 2070's. If we don't want that to be the case, then we better start thinking for ourselves rather than turning on Bill O'Rielly and waiting for him to tell us what we think about immigration or gay marriage or liberal nazis extremists.
Someone said that the two parties have their positive and negative qualities. This, I believe, is totally untrue. There are no positive qualities to either party. This is made more apparent when you consider the fact that when one party takes a stand on something, it becomes the obligation of the opposing party to take an opposing stance. It really is that simple here in the US. I don't care what any conservative or liberal member here has to say. It is total BULLSHIT! This is a one party nation.
It's like sitting down to a multiple answer test and realizing neither A or B are the correct answer, but that there's no room in the margin to write in your own answer.
There is only pro-gay or anti-gay; there is only pro-christian agenda or anti-christian agenda; there is only morals=marriage/religion or you're anti-morals. It goes on and on. And the huge majority of people in America, I truely believe, are bright enough to think for themselves. The problem is that government isn't about providing a stable civilization, it's about taking advantage of how comfortable they've become.
If all these pundits and talking heads and party leaders ever actually came out and said "hey, if Sally Jane gets an abortion, despite your religious or "moral' beliefs, that's between Sally Jane, her own conscious, and the god to which she ascribes." the whole ****ing country would erupt into panic and disbelief. It's the same reason why this so-called reality television has become so huge. It feeds on the epidemic mentality that whats going on everywhere else in our country is our buisness, because it takes place in our country, which is the best country in the world, because we have John Wayne, private health care and bibles in every hotel room. It's really just fu*king mental! Personally, I have a hard time seeing how that mentality is any different than this built-in, viral effect of organized religions. What does it all come down to? A complete and total inability for anyone to admit they're wrong, despite not even knowing if they're right! We have to keep Bill and Frank from getting married because we think we know that if they do it will be the end of western society and those hordes of raging towel-heads and chinks will come crashing through the ideaological gates we have at the entrance to our country.
A friend of mine once said that liberals are angry because they think they know everything, and conservatives are angry because they think they don't.
Overly confident or paranoid, I guess that's what he was saying were our options. It's just too bad that 90% of the time he's right.
So, there aren't "two paths". There is only one, disguised as two.
Last edited by Devil King on Aug 18th, 2007 at 03:45 PM
Exactly Devil. It's all a way to make this country even further polarized, so we further waste our time bickering with each other instead of finding common ground and uniting against the real forces of oppression and manipulation.
__________________ "What have you bought into, how much is it gonna cost to buy you out?" - Saul Williams
I watched Lewis Black last night in San Francisco, you somewhat recapped what he said. Sadly, it's true, it's a one side says "yes", the other will say "no", regardless of the issue, these days.
I hadn't the faintest idea that under the stereotypical gayness and sexuality flaunting, there would be such an intelligent person. Well played, Goddess Kali.
Thank You Feceman, but I did not mean to simplify the two parties into basic emotional personifications. Ofcourse it is far more complicated than that, but I simply don't agree 100% with either side.
The turning point was this year. After the Death of Anna Nicole Smith, perspectives from all sides were shown on the news and other sources of media.
While the Conservatives were critisizing her for having been sexually promiscious and "obnoxious", Liberals were critisizing her for her weight- her constant fluxuation from fat too skinny, and back and forth.
It's like "wtf" ? An innocent women died not too shortly after her son's death. And instead of displaying sympathy, we are all making fun of her ?
Conservatives will argue that only God can judge you, yet they will judge someone to the death. Liberals will argue that its wrong to attack someone for being Black/Hispanic, or for being Gay, but it's perfectly fine to call someone ugly, or to make fun of them for being fat (or too skinny).
I do that just joking around, cuz I need to laugh. I know it's trolling, but it cracks me up to make fun of myself, and the gay stereotype, and this far in my life, humor is one of the many things that keeps me going.
My apologies, I'm actually a lot smarter than I act lol
I think it's good not to pidgeonhole yourself, with classifications and types, and the worst of course being a stereotype. Everyone should just be who they are and believe what they want, not follow a sect of the same thing; such as religion. Don't have a religion, just believe what you want to believe, it's a lot more free that way.
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Aug 12th, 2007 10:37 PM
