do you feel surfer + BRB + gladiator + JoH + morg + ganymede represent a greater power than 52 different versions of captain atom + numerous supermen + a handful of GL's? because monarch owned the latter with an extreme degree of ease. and physically, thanos seemed to give tyrant a good match. do you feel thanos is physically stronger than superboy prime [who monarch stalemated]?
either way, i feel very confident in saying that whoever wins the first scenario, does so after a very close battle. as far as the second scenario is concerned, nothing i've seen is suggestive of tyrant being able to survive a universe-busting explosion.
Are you taking about that fight with thanos with the Orb of all the power Tyrant was collecting for himself? Then it would be hard to judge because nobody knows exactly how much power was in the orb.
Hey Galan I hope all is well on your end these days. Now onto your questions..
I don't necessarily feel like the aforementioned team is more powerful one then 52 said Captain Atoms, GL's etc etc. However, that is all that Tyrant faced and he did so very very easily. For all we know there could've been 10 more of each and it wouldn't have mattered. I guess what I'm saying is that just because Monarch beat more people doesn't mean that Tyrant couldn't have beaten more heralds and with ease as well. The comics just didn't show it that way. However, I am of the opinion that SS, BRB, Morg or Glads alone are more powerful than One Captain Atom and certainly way more powerful than the GL fodder Monarch owned. So, my question back to you is this.. Do you feel as I do that Surfer for example is great than one Atom? Second part, how many atoms would it take to beat one surfer in your opinion?
Also, Tyrant basically had Galactus beat... they exchanged blasts & blows, blows that were actually make Tyrant stronger. So, Galactus got worried his normal and usual attack to put people down was failing. He then resorted to another tactic which again backfired and had Tyrant at the brink of beating Galactus with relative ease as you say. So, I could then pose that question to you... Do you think Monarch or SBP could beat a WELL FED and PREPPED Galactus with ease? Tyrant took it to him and had him beat until morg showed up. People hate the fight but it wasn't PIS or CIS. Galactus is very arrogant and rarely ever preps or feeds before battle. He didn't want to fight Tyrant the first time and let him take Morg because he feared what would be left after their fight. Clearly, Galactus felt Tyrant was a big threat to him even in his Depowered state, and thus Fed and prepped for the encounter. Yet Tyrant still owned him with ease.
Now your question about Thanos and Prime... I wouldn't say Thanos is stronger than Prime but I would say they are peers. As we've discussed before I think they are a very good match. Both very strong, very durable... One with a speed advantage and the other with versatility advantage. So, I'm of the opinion that Thanos is just as strong as prime. While Thanos did give Tyrant a good match in a sense it was also clear he wasn't in his league. He locked up and Thanos stalemated him for a bit, which is impressive, but then Tyrant manhandled him such that I haven't really seen before. To build on that point... Thanos left and said had he stayed Tyrant would've killed him. So, my question back to you is this... How do you feel a Odin vs. Monarch match would go? To build on that... Odin faced Thanos and went panel after panel with an Odin out to kill him. Yet, while Thanos was losing the fight... he never backed down and refused to give up and wanted to keep fighting. He faced Tyrant, and the fight was much shorter. Yet, thanos looked more messed up, and he admitted he needed to leave or he would die. So, it seems to me that at least, Thanos felt Tyrant was stronger. So, I guess what I'm saying is do you feel Monarch is that much stronger that Odin?
Lastly, could he survive the blast.. you say you've seen nothing to suggest he could survive a universal destroying blast. Well my friend he survived the initial blast of the UN which as you know can be a Multiversal destroying blast. It took multiple shots from the UN to put him down. So, yes I think he's shown he's more than capable of possibly surviving such a blast imo. Ooooo and by the way... I agree whoever does win, does so after a long hard battle. Totally agree. Thanks for the response Galan.
I'm under the opinion as are others that Thanos was at his base level. All that was in the orb was knowledge not any power increase. So, really that was Thanos just testing his might against a powerful foe.
really. I always assumed it was power, again Thanos' always thirst for knowledge so perhaps your right.. I should really look at the whole DP tyrant arch again to refresh my memory.
Hey Kurupt, you make some good points. Anyway I think this would be a pretty good fight.
I think in Scenario 2, DP would be KTFO but still with a pulse.
imo, monarch owned the teams of characters i mentioned earlier, with an even greater degree of ease than tyrant owned the marvelites *shrug*. regardless, getting into the "he could have owned more" guessing game is a moot - i'm talking about who they did own, and how easily they owned those respective teams.
is surfer greater than a single captain atom? perhaps. how many atoms' would it take to defeat surfer? i'm not going there.
tyrant fared as well as he did against galactus because he feeds on the very same energy type galactus emits in his offensive blasts [ie. biospheric energy.] thus, every blast galactus unleashed actually empowered tyrant - not to mention that tyrant further increased his power by leeching 'BSE' from taa II itself. so based on that, i highly doubt he was capable of defeating galactus at his 'base levels'.
anyhow, monarch does not emit that specific energy type. his blasts would actually harm tyrant, they certainly wouldn't boost his power. thus, tyrant would not be at 'galactus-busting' levels in this battle.
as for your question: damn near any character able to feed on 'BSE' would be capable of mimicking tyrant's 'feat'. imo.
i beg to differ.
a.) the UN is only universal/multiversal in the right hands [morg does not qualify as the 'right hands'.]
b.) the blast morg initially hit tyrant with was NOT a full UN blast [that much was made clear through both dialogue and the depictions.] however, when tyrant was hit with a true UN blast [at the end of the issue], he was utterly destroyed.
that said, i still can't see him surviving scenario #2.
Yes, Monarch owned the CA's and fodder Laterns with ease.. Yet my friend, when he faced his toughest foe.. SBP he lost. So, I don't get all this talk about how easy things were. IMO SBP and Thanos are a very good match. Difference is.... Thanos got messed up and fled before Tyrant killed him. Words from his own mouth and that is saying a lot coming from Thanos. Monarch faced Prime... and lost. Granted its SBP and thus he has the supermanesque aura. Regardless, though it certainly wasn't AS easy as Tyrant beat... SS, Morg, Terrax, BRB, Glads, JOH, Thanos and Galactus.
Next, it wasn't just the fact that Tyrant could feed on those energies that made Galactus concerned. Lets remember... Galactus was shocked when Tyrant pulled that little trick where Galactus own blasts were making him stronger. So, its safe to say he had no idea Tyrant could or would do such a thing. To build on that... Galactus backed down from the first encounter and let him take Morg because he feared how much collateral damage would take place had he fought. He prepped and Fed for a battle that he knew was tough. Surfer's own words... I must go there as quickly as possible BEFORE THEY BOTH DESTROY EACHOTHER. Surfer had no idea Tyrant could do this and yet seems very clear how much of a threat Tyrant posed. So, to say that is the reason why he was able to do good and the only reason is selling Tyrant short. Galactus feared Tyrant and prepped and fed because he knew he was a worth adversary, not because he knew Tyrant could absorb his blasts and make him stronger.
Lastly, your missing one key factor.. First, while you say it wasn't a "true" UN blast.. that is fine.. Yet we don't know and can't calculate how powerful it was. Second, we know that the UN is capable of destroying and has destroyed the Multiverse. Monarch explosion.. is only universal. Maybe you can see where I'm going... It is possible that even a "not perfect" UN blast could still be equivalent or greater than a universal destroying blast. Afterall, we know one is exponentially greater than the other. So, IMO it is certainly possible he could survive the blast.
So, do tell JL.. Your saying... 52 Atoms, Fodder GL's etc are greater than SS, BRB, Glads, JOH, Morg, Terrax, Thanos & Galactus? Sorry not even close. Monarch's toughest test was against Prime who he LOST TO. Tyrant best tests were against Thanos and Galactus who.. he beat and made flee.. and was about to beat before Morg showed up. Regardless, how on earth do you figure he beat tougher foes and easier?
First of, what are you talking about. Tyrant never fought Thanos and Glactus, or any one else on your list at the same time. He fought them separately. From what I remember, he fought a few high Herald levels and he owned them nice. Though, it's not as much compared to how Monarch fought his opponents. He easily defeated a few Superman and 52 other Atoms. He didn't even flinch. He took 2 Supermen and 3 Wonder Women at the same time. Again without flinching. He even was fighting 3 Green Lanterns; their attack was nothing to him. Then he fought a group consisting of Superman, Firestorm/Captain Atom, Starman, Stargirl, Blue Beetle, Flash, One of Forerunners race, Wonder Woman, They Ray, And Apollo. I think he owned them without getting hit whatsoever.
Yes, you are right, he did lose to Superman. However, you act as if Superman Prime with the Guardian Amp is weak and nothing compared to Tyrant. You are wrong. I give Prime the win over Tyrant. Either way, Monarch wasn't fighting Prime at his highest. He highly underestimated him. He probably mistook him for a regular Superman. And we have seen what a regular Superman is to Monarch. Monarch was fighting Prime, but he was making fun of him and laughing at him. Obviously, he had a grave mistake. Either way, Prime was physically powerful enough to rip Monarch Armor open. Tyrant might be able to do it, but he won't get the chance. Prime who we know has a high durability was getting hurt badly by Monarch's blast. He even commented that it hurt him a lot.
The point is... how can anybody say Monarch owned things with a greater amount of ease than Tyrant when Monarch in actuality LOST. You can say it was overconfidence and you can spin it however you want. Fact is, he lost and therefore nothing was easier than what Tyrant did. Tyrant has NO bad showings.. NONE. He fought tougher people than Monarch and still never lost. He ended up getting defeated by multiple UN blasts, but that is hardly what I would call "losing" a fight. It matters not if Tyrant fought them ALL at once... The fact is he faced tougher competition in Thanos and Galactus alone and had the upper hand in both. Monarch faced... a lot of CA, Superman, GL fodder and a host of others that Galactus could problem one shot all at the same time. Prime is greater than Tyrant.. lol. Based on what? Prime has no armor to open up on Tyrant.. Tyrant has cosmic awareness and Prime is still weak to Red Sun. Not to mention again the versatility edge Tyrant would hold. Tyrant physically manhandled Thanos after a initial good battle such that Thanos hasn't had done to him before. Yes, we are talking about Thanos who is peers imo with Prime strength wise. Of course with Thanos holding the versatility and overall power edge over prime. I'm just using those two because they are far greater than anyone Monarch faced. That is without even going into the high heralds he beat that again are better than any of the CA's, GL's, WW etc etc. The point is.. it was Tyrant who fought the tougher competition and had no bad showings and did so with greater ease, not Monarch.
I ask you again... Show me one time Galactus has used his CA to scan an enemy for weakness as Surfer did to Glads. Show me when this has happened.... Fact is, just because Galactus hasn't done that doesn't mean he can't. Afterall, SS has but a fraction of the PC that Galactus does, so its a pretty safe assumption Galactus can. Tyrant on the other hand... was made in Galactus image and has much much more PC than SS, again a safe assumption he can as well.
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Sep 28th, 2009 07:42 PM
