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Misunderstanding
Started by: kjm87

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kjm87
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Misunderstanding

Please don't tell me that if I know anything about Lord of the Rings, I should know this, but why did Saruman turn against Gandalf? I thought they used to be friends. Please don't say it's a stupid question, as I've had it all before. Thanks

Mar 14th, 2003 07:23 PM

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PeekaReet
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Saruman was greedy....plus he was positive that...this time, evil would prevail. So he decided he wanted to be on the winning side, notice how he asked Gandalf to join before he turned on him, it was a kind of "join or die" thing....did i explain that right? Im not so good with words...oh well...

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Mar 14th, 2003 07:54 PM

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Dexx
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yes, he was hoping for a part of the power but as gandalf says. (i think..) right before he jumps on radagast's eagle
"there is only one lord of the rings..and he does not share power!" *vwoom*

Mar 14th, 2003 08:02 PM

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Ushgarak
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Book or film? In the film he is more subservient to Sauron.

In the book, it is rather more complex. Saruman is the head of the Order whose job it is to stop Sauron- the Istari. He is the Istari's EXPERT on Sauron and his ways, and knows more about the Rings than anyone other than Sauron himself.

Saruman always resented Gandalf who was more popular with the denizens of Middle-Earth, and it was also clearer that Gandalf was more wise.

But Saruman was actually the more skillful, and also the more powerful, and for a long time he did his job well.

At some point a few centuries before the story starts, however, Saruman starts to turn evil. This is a combination of two things:

1. His acquisition of the Palantir at his tower in Orthanc, as seen in LOTR. The problem with the Palantirs- which communicate with each other- is that Sauron nabbed them ages ago. When Saruman tries to use them to spy on other areas, Sauron slowly gets to work on Saruman's mind, turning him towers selfishness and evil

2. It occurs to Saruman that the best way to defeat Sauron is to get the Ring. In fact, this becones rather a point of pride to Saruman that Sauron COULD be so defeated.

And so slowly, Saruman goes from being the leader of those entrusted with defending the free races of Middle-Earth, into a power-obsessed bad guy.

In the film, this takes the form of him being dominated by Sauron and becoming his slave.

In the BOOKS, it is all a bluff by Saruman, who plans to take the Ring and enslave Sauron- and it is made clear he could have done it too. The background texts to LOTR make plenty of mention of Saruman's agents quietly harassing and even killing Sauron's to stop him finding the Ring.

Incidentally, that is why the Orcs at the start of TTT are taking Merry and Pippin to Saruman- he has intercepted the Fellowshop, and ordered his orcs to bring him 'two hobbits' who had the ring. They mistake Merry and Pippin for Sam and Frodo, and in any case the Hobbits never get there, and Saruman's treachery against Sauron is made clear.

This makes less sense in the film; I would have thought the Hobbits should have been taken straight to Mordor. Oh well.

Anyway. Saruman would have liked to have had the Istari on his side, but frankly I think he was happier gloating over a defeated Gandalf, so was pleased when Gandalf did not accept his offer.

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Mar 14th, 2003 08:20 PM

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even powerful wizards can be lured by the power of the ring and sauron. thats why gandalf tried really hard to resist the ring.

Mar 15th, 2003 03:26 AM

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REXXXX
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That's why he also wouldn't even touch the damn thing.

Ush pretty much explained it. Saruman pretends to be the slave (he thinks he's not but he is) and wants the Ring for himself.

The main reason that Gandalf was captured was because Radagast told him that Saruman was looking for him. He was also rescued because of Radagast. Poor, mindless brown wizard.

I wonder what the other wizards are like. I mean, there are more than three of them, right?

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