__________________ "In The Brightest Day, In The Darkest Night, No Evil Shall Pass My Sight, Those Who Worship Evils Might, Beware My All Seeing Eyes......
It is interesting that the Superman vs. Hal tussle was under the same writer as the Hal vs. Zod, and both featured the 'new' Hal with his new ring.
Trying to be objective, there are some clues to the writer's intent that are being overlooked. When Superman fought Hal, Hal was under Hammond's influence. The writer even has Superman say that he'd hate to see how hard the ring would hit if Hal was in his right mind. On the other hand, Superman is clearly not going all out either. But it's interesting that the writer put in that comment about Hal not bringing his full A game.
Against Zod, there are also some weird comments. Someone says that Zod under two suns is "Superman-level", though Zod makes it clear that the twin Suns amp him beyond normal one-sun levels. Isn't Zod normally Superman level? Was this just a throwaway comment that doesn't mean anything? Is 'level' meant to be taken very loosely?
Also, Kryptonians are presented as being beyond your average GL 1 on 1, at least that is the what seems to be implied. Even when Hal is gonna go against Zod, the sense you get initially is that this is an uphill climb for Jordan. And then Jordan makes a comment about air battles being 360 degrees, suggesting that maybe Hal is outskilling Zod more than he is more powerful. One even gets the sense from the fight that perhaps Zod is favored, but Hal won an underdog victory.
Still, the power ring is IMO the ultimate dynamic power device in a sense. Since it's based on willpower, I get the feeling that GL power fluctuates more than the power level of normal heroes, and that any GL is more likely to be able to punch out his weight (maybe far out of his weight) than a normal hero because of the dynamism intrinsic to GL rings.
Finally, some posters have suggested that Zod may have planned to lose--I guess we'll see about that.
At any rate, this is just one writer's opinion, and thus it is far from definitive. Still, it's interesting to try to figure out how that writer feels about GLs vs. Kryptonians in general, and Hal vs. Zod in particular.
In the Superman/Hal confrontation, Hal was seeing Superman as Parallax, so I'd wager he was more 'motivated' than usual. The writer had Superman give some lip-service with that line about "I'd hate to see how hard you hit in your right mind" but, at the same time, it came right after Superman hit him so hard he checked if he had a concussion and rattled him so hard he was snapped out of Hammond's control. This was after his heat vision overpowered his ring in a direct 'beam contest'. It's not a clean win, but as close as you can get all things considered.
As for the 'level under two suns' part, I'd wager the writer took into consideration that Superman is more powerful than Zod under normal circumstances [more time under the sun, better with his powers and such], so that's why he leveled up the field of play, to make it clear the two suns close the gap. I don't see why level should be taken very loosely - unless we take two suns as loosely the same as a normal sun. Saying they're Superman level was said as a direct consequence of them being under two suns, so the correlation is quite clear. The line would make no sense if both under one sun and under two he'd be Superman level. Under this writer, the implication is clear. Others might not have Zod need two suns [or just hand-waved it, and assume that the two suns extended exposure raised Zod's level to Superman, and move on to both of them under a single sun].
Kryptonians are definitely portrayed as above a Green Lantern. Zod roflstomped Kyle [twice, the second time amped by Hal's will], and the other Green Lanterns en-masse didn't fare any better. Last issue they were all toying with the GLs and Faora directly overpowered multiple lanterns trying to restrain her once 'she had enough'. There is maybe a subtext that it wasn't in Zod's best interest to beat Hal, given his plan was to make the Guardians back off, but I don't think he was faking being KO/incapacitated. Maybe he didn't try as hard to win, but even so, it proves Hal can, like I said, KO/incapacitate Superman-level beings.
edit:
Also, check out Superman vs Zod/his son/Faora in the latest Action Comics arc with booster, to see how Superman compares with an even OLDER Zod + his family, who have spend decades under the two suns. Let's say it's not unfavorably..
__________________
“Perhaps this is the ultimate freedom. The freedom to leave.”
Last edited by Philosophía on Mar 30th, 2018 at 12:34 PM
And it's been well established will stacks well beyond the sum of its parts. As far back as Guy Gardners series, when he had the Sinestro ring, and joining his will with a green lantern allowed the two of them to catch up with a ship going at warp speeds neither could catch alone.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Let's not forget NU52 Superman (before the merger with Pre Flashpoint Supes) being confirmed to be MORE POWERFUL than Hal Jordan with the Krona's Gauntlet and the rest of the Justice League COMBINED during the Vandal Savage arc.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
hal can certainly beat him, but he wouldn't take a majority, not yet. him and ww are both moving up the ladder though it seems, to the point where i wouldn't be shocked if either beat him. /shrug
Hahaha, Superman notes that Hal Jordan isn't his normal self and would not be hitting as hard as normal.
The same two idiots in this thread bombard every other thread about how Superman under mental influence or mind control (Ivy vs. Batman's whistle, Lord vs. Wonder Woman SPECIFICALLY because he was seeing Doomsday. Sound familiar?) isn't operating at peak performance.
Maybe, just maybe, Hal Jordan would be approaching a fight against Superman differently than Parallax. Regardless, mind control/illusion etc. can be a useful barometer to some extent but it is at best supplementary evidence as it gives the writer a lot more wiggle room.
Shit like this is brilliant. Because Hal Jordan USING his ring = Hal Jordan at peak efficiency.
__________________
Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Mar 30th, 2018 at 02:11 PM
Split tbh and looking at both of their showings against Zod, Hal could probably tip the scale. Anyone using Hal vs Superman showing in the books as evidence is crazy. Hal would never fight Superman the same way he fought Zod (who was amped). Split or edge to Hal.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
not sure how i feel about that, tbh. i really like kyle and guy but it feels more and more like they are nothing more than supporting characters when both have proven in the past they should have evolved beyond that role.
They really want to hammer it down that Hal is the greatest. I don't think it's that Guy/Kyle/John are weaker, they've always had problems against kryptonians. It's that Hal has became that powerful. His willpower has been compared to the central power battery, for christ's sake, which is absurd.
Remember when people used to argue Hal is weak against this type of fighters, despite proof to the contrary, and his showings against Krona/Nekron etc. were not relevant to fights against "flying bricks"? Good times. Their mouth has a certain shit smell right about now.
__________________
“Perhaps this is the ultimate freedom. The freedom to leave.”
I remember a [really stupid] poster specifically arguing that showings against Mongul or Shaggy Man weren't valid because they were not 'flying' bricks, only bricks.
__________________
“Perhaps this is the ultimate freedom. The freedom to leave.”
KMC Community Forums
Mar 30th, 2018 09:01 AM
