Well some of you know what studies I'm doing: I won't repeat it here, that would be too long. Among the subjects we have, there is a thing called "General knowledge". In my school it is divided in 2 subjects : French and Philosophy. As it is not a formal philosophical course, I have to deal with concepts that I hold as very interesting. I'd start with this one :
Heroism
Our work is basically to define the word and to find something paradoxical to start our reflection. I don't think that would be necessary here.
So... to start with, the hero was originally an intermediate state between man and god. He (it ?) draws this particularity from the energy he (it?) develop to achieve a goal or to go in some direction. Hence he could be driven by passion.
I was wondering if heroism wasn't after all the virtue of failure, for an act is heroic only if it is almost certainly impossible to achieve. So if the "hero" succeed, one can say it's luck, and if he fails, people would say that it is normal...
What is considered heroism depends on a society' s values.
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You only live once. But if you live it right, once is enough. Wrong. We only die once, we live every day!
Make poverty history.
It would be cool to die as a hero.Most army man are doing that we speak!JM
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Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
Soldiers fall on the category of Warriors and not neccesary Heroes. A hero is willing to sacrifice him/her self for the greater good not just for his people. Just go watch Jet Li in Hero....great movie
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know you were taking this TOO seriously.
...
Basically if a guy wants to sacrifice himself for his people it isn't very heroic. If the will of his people is to conquer and kill other people's lands it is not really the greater good. If the guy wants to unite all people for a greater good then that's really heroic. At least that's how I see it.
Norwegian constitution dont allow for Norwegian forces to be any other things than a defensive military forces (the name covering all the different military brances is DEFENCE), the fact that Norwegian special forces are deployed both in Afghanistan and Iraq is actually a violation of the Norwegian constitution, but what dont we do to suck up to the yanks
I believe heroism is giving of yourself to benefit others.......completely unselfishly. I would take a bullet for my wife......not to gain anything from it.......simply because I would never want her to be in pain. If I did so, I believe that would make me a hero to her as I gave of myself purely to benefit her.
Most soldiers do not give of themselves purely to benefit others. There are many reasons they become soldiers. The same can be said about police officers and fireman.
- many people become soldiers/police/fireman because they lack direction and believe these jobs will hold them over until they find a direction....provide them with money...provide them with experience........helping people is not the sole reason.
- many people become soldiers out of their own feeling of discontent. I myself know a person who enlisted in the army so he could go to Iraq and fight Saddam Hussein...........liberating the people of Iraq was not his main concern, although it was a bi-product.
I don't believe anything you are paid to do can be considered heroism. If it is part of your job........it is not heroic. Noble.......yes........but heroic no, as you are also gaining something.
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
^good post but one more thing, there is no true heroism if you define it as being unselfish at any time. I belive ther is no unselfish deed everything someone does is selfish and he does it only for himself (kind of like Nietzsche if you know who that is)
So heroes in this definition do not exist.
And heroes in the old Greek definition as in people that did amazing deeds that are impossible to most humans, well I guess there arew some even though I can't think of any right now.
yes I know who he is......but I do not agree with that.
I believe there are many unselfish deeds we all do daily.......some mundane and every now and again one great enough to be considered heroic.
Something as small as changing your plans to make your wife happy is unselfish. If my wife loves to go to the theater (which she does).....and I despise it (which I do).........by saying, "ok honey, we'll go watch this play tonight" I am doing something completely unselfish.......something purely for her benefit. There is no reward for me........but I am giving something of myself (me time, my presence) for the sole reason of bringing her enjoyment. While not being heroic........the same would apply to larger situations, like my bullet analogy earlier.
It doesn't even need to be out of love. I've given money to homeless people before.......just so they can eat. This family used to hang out in front of Walmart......man, woman and two kids.........when I see those people and their children and give them a $20 to go to the McDonalds across the street it is completely unselfish. I didn't do it to make myself feel good........I actually didn't feel good about the situation at all. I couldn't pat myself on the back thinking I had done a good deed........all I could think about was those kids standing in the cold, not knowing when the last time they had eaten.....which saddened me. It was not done out of love.........more out of concern for other human beings and their well being.
There is this older homeless woman who rides around town on her bike (well did, havn't seen her in a long time). About three years ago I found her asleep on the bench outside of my work.........without shoes. I knew the shoes I was wearing at the time weren't that great (just old tennis shoes I throw on to drive to work in, where I change into my work shoes) but figured she would appreciate them much more than I. I sat them down on the bench next to her bag she was using as a pillow. I figured sure, they may be too big for her but they'd keep her feet alot warmer than those socks she was wearing.....and I have many shoes at home. Again, it wasn't to make myself feel good.......it's impossible to feel good at all when you see someone like that.......but it was giving something purely for someone else's benefit, I gained nothing.
I do understand what you're saying.......I just don't agree. I know alot of people just walk around minding their own business but I can't help but to help someone a little when I see the chance. I'm not really a great humanitarian.......I donate to one charity and that's it....but when you see a real person in a bad situation and you can help, you do it...even if you can only help a little. If every person did so that homeless woman wouldn't need to be so worried about being cold......and her shoes wearing out....or her clothes getting holes in them. I may be in the minority (judging by others at work laughing at me) but people seem to look past others and not see them as human beings..............whereas I thinks it crap that I have 6 pair of shoes I wear regularly, a couple pair of boots, shoes I wear strictly to mow the lawn in, shoes I wear strictly to work and a pile of old shoes in the closet that I don't even wear anymore........and this woman is sleeping in the cold with no shoes at all.
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
Well I accept your view, mine is just different.
well maybe I am indolent or just plain bad but I belive that there are only selfish deeds. For examplöe me driving my brother somewhere doesn't help me on the first sight and however I would like to think that was nice of me and unselfish after all it wasn't, i did it for many reasons, to feel good since somehow my conscience would make me feel bad or just to avoid being seen as a bad person or get into an arguement with my brother and my mom or whatever.
And I hope you understand that I don't want to say that you are a bad person or only think about yourself (I guess I am kind of implying that) but that when you for example give someone something you do it because you like this alternative more then not giving something, same with the bullet you yourself think your life wouldn't be worth to live anymore or even worse and so you jump between a bullet and your wive cause it suits you more than the alternative.
But I know most people disagree and since you know aboot Nietzsche you probably thought aboot that before and decided for yourself that it is not wwhat you belive and don't want to tell you that you are wrong or anything just that I believe sth. else.
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
I don't want to derail the topic with this comment, but in reality giving money to a homeless guy in the street isn't really an act of heroism. If you want to go philosophical it could be a bad thing. Because what you're doing is making those people more dependant of others. They will never get out of their problems and they will always depent from help of others. Life is about getting on your own two feet and fight to survive. This is a Dog eat Dog world and helping someone is a good thing, but the problem is that is just makes them dependent and that's really not an act of heroism. People have to be independent and pull their own weight and suck it up and live.
As for Nietzsche...I wouldn't pay too much attention to him. Great writer and superb pessamist but his philosophy is base on Master and slavery and that for me is rather old fashion. Besides he was a nut and die in an assylum so I don't trust his works. I go with Jean-Paule Sartre rather than Nietzche.
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Jun 18th, 2004 04:17 PM
