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Karl Marx
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MC Mike
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Arrow Karl Marx

The transition from corruptive capitalism to generic socialism and eventual communism. What do you think of these philosophies?


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 05:20 AM
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finti
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the idea behind it is good, very jesusish.

Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 07:42 AM
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eleveninches
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The trouble with communism is that if everybody gets an equal share of money, then there is no motivation for anybody to work or try to get a better job than anybody else. The country then becomes lazy and the economy collapses

Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 10:41 AM
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finti
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quote:
The trouble with communism is that if everybody gets an equal share of money, then there is no motivation for anybody to work or try to get a better job than anybody else. The country then becomes lazy and the economy collapses
well but if everyone gets equal share of money there is no need to stive for better jobs.

Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 10:51 AM
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eleveninches
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But why would they do a difficult job if somebody else with an easy job gets as much money

Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 11:12 AM
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Morning_Glory
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thats what I think


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 11:20 AM
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Mr Zero
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quote:
Originally posted by MornGlory


thats what I think


Dont be silly - everyone here knows you cant think.

Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 11:35 AM
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finti
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quote:
But why would they do a difficult job if somebody else with an easy job gets as much money
Your way of thinking here is of a capitalistic point of view. The ideology is that all jobs are just as important, that they are all just as much worth regardless if you are a doctor or a bossman. They all participate to make their society work......... now thats the theoretical idea behind it. How it worked in the real life is a different matter all togehter though.

Watch or read George Orwells "Animal farm" then you get a pretty good picture of how a good idea turned sour

Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 11:57 AM
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moneypenny
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Yip, communism is a great idea in theory, as is socialism, but it doesn't work in real life. Human nature tends to put a spanner in the works. In communism, power corrupts. It's been proven in real life applications. In socialist societies, you have problems like in England where 15 year old girls fall pregnant, on purpose, so they can go on the dohl (or however you spell that). Like so many theories, it just isn't practical. At this point in time, the only thing that can work is capitalism. Wallerstein reckons the only thing after this is socialism. I don't know.


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 12:29 PM
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shaber
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socialism was originally an idea for standing up for the underdog, but the Labour Party has very long since abandoned any such motive!


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 12:32 PM
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GCG
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an interisting quote

quote:
The worker becomes all the poorer the more wealth he produces, the more his production increases in power and range. The worker becomes an ever cheaper commodity the more commodities he creates. With the increasing value of the world of things proceeds in direct proportion to the devaluation of the world of men. Labour produces not only commodities; it produces itself and the worker as a commodity -- and does so in the proportion in which it produces commodities generally.


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 12:34 PM
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yerssot
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quote:
Originally posted by moneypenny
Yip, communism is a great idea in theory, ...

"In theory communism works ... in theory."

and you can take a guess who said that

Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 03:06 PM
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Kostabot
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Capitalism is still THE major form of government, they just made it a little more democratic and changed the name. big grin


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 03:12 PM
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WanderingDroid
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The man was a genious! One of the greatest philosophers of all time. There has always been debates about what was written by Marx and what was written by his close friend Engels. I, personally don't debate much on who wrote what because for me the message is the same.....this world belongs to the working class and eventually the proletariat will triumph over the opressor.

Now, it is very unfortunate that his ideas in the Manifesto were corrupted during the 20th century. From the Soviets to Castro they took what they liked from the Marx's ideas and used them for their own causes. I kinda see The Communist Manifesto as a religious book. Some people take what they want from it and turn it into their own agendas. What a pity indeed.


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 03:40 PM
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Clovie

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the idea was ok
but the system was just WRONG.


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 04:29 PM
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shaber
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quote:
Originally posted by yerssot
"In theory communism works ... in theory."

and you can take a guess who said that


Homer Simpson said it once.


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 04:49 PM
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shaber
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quote:
Originally posted by WindDancer
The man was a genious! One of the greatest philosophers of all time. There has always been debates about what was written by Marx and what was written by his close friend Engels. I, personally don't debate much on who wrote what because for me the message is the same.....this world belongs to the working class and eventually the proletariat will triumph over the opressor.

Now, it is very unfortunate that his ideas in the Manifesto were corrupted during the 20th century. From the Soviets to Castro they took what they liked from the Marx's ideas and used them for their own causes. I kinda see The Communist Manifesto as a religious book. Some people take what they want from it and turn it into their own agendas. What a pity indeed.


I've noticed that people who worship Marx and Lenin tend to steer clear of Stalin, but I have come across an exception before - someone advocating Stalin's system as being ideal!


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 04:50 PM
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finti
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quote:
I've noticed that people who worship Marx and Lenin tend to steer clear of Stalin, but I have come across an exception before - someone advocating Stalin's system as being ideal!
Stalin was a paranoid butcher dictator, Lenin also went away from the theory the communism was built uppon. He created the leadership, the soviets, an elite group who had privilages beyond what the avarage man had. By doing so the idea of all is equal was gone

Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 05:11 PM
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WanderingDroid
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quote:

Stalin was a paranoid butcher dictator, Lenin also went away from the theory the communism was built uppon. He created the leadership, the soviets, an elite group who had privilages beyond what the avarage man had. By doing so the idea of all is equal was gone


Trotsky was the only one that kept the ideas of Marx intact. A true marxist to the core.


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 05:47 PM
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finti
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quote:
Trotsky was the only one that kept the ideas of Marx intact. A true marxist to the core.
nah he was a Leninist and a treath to Stalins plan as a heir to the Soviet Union so he had to "go"

Old Post Nov 18th, 2004 05:50 PM
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