Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
seems a chaos wave wanda is a non-wanda from all i've seen. since she can't control the wave, why do we keep counting it as a seeming part of her powerset?
even if she did somehow unleash the wave in a battle with someone, it was counterable, and the release of the wave didn't even wipe out everyone in 616 so why would it destroy someone she was battling face-to-face?
if we make things up and arbitrarily GRANT her 'wave powers' i guess we can have this discussion, but since (as far as i can tell) there is no CONCLUSIVE evidence that she consciously started the wave and that it wasn't simply a result of her tampering (a by-product of her REAL powerset) i just don't understand all this wanda-the-omniverse-destroyer talk.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Because Wanda generated the Wave.
meh,
but it did destroy countless Universes
"Your Dimension is a Cancer, bringing DEVASTATION to BRANES (Universes) ALL ALONG the SIDEREAL STRING" (please log in to view the image)
"Sparing Yours condemns the REST"
Had it spilled into 616, there would have been NO WAY to Stop it.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
but NOT 616. doesn't that imply that the wave came from somewhere OTHER than wanda -- i mean other than emanating DIRECTLY from wanda's person? if it came 'right out of wanda', like, say, a hex bolt, surely the first thing it would have destroyed would have been everything in the area immediately around her THEN escalated out into the multiverse.
[qoute]Please, not you Leon, the waters between us have only been recently cleared.
This sounds eerie familiar.
"a by product of her powerset" you say, where did you read that?
If you can show me one instance where it is even hinted, that the Chaos Wave came about on it's own, I'll agree.
Until then, even Roma didn't know.[/quote]
'fraid they're about to get muddied again. civilly this time, i hope.
in any event, you sort of shot down your OWN case while shooting at mine. i will freely admit that this is speculation on my part, (because once again, no CONCLUSIVE evidence supports either interpretation) but how can your view be any less speculatory when you yourself showed a scan stating roma herself didn't know where the wave came from? were it as simple as -- the wave came from wanda' wouldn't roma have KNOWN that? she (or her omniversal cronies) seemed to believe that it emanated from the 616 and so felt wiping out 616 ('genocide') would stop the wave. does it not follow that if they thought it was from wanda, that they would suggest just wiping out wanda?
true enough, but hardly conclusive in and of itself. that was also where wanda was wreaking havoc. i'm just not sure how you can be so seemingly certain that the wave came right from wanda when:
(a) nothing AROUND her was affected by its alleged release yet it 'destroyed universes'
(b) nothing ON PANEL says it CAME from wanda, but rather says it came from 616 where she was AND where she was remaking and tampering with reality
(c) even ROMA wasn't certain where it came from. and here it seems to me it would have been easy enough for her to know if it came from one single person as roma et al., are hardly stupid or uninformed beings.
(d) roma (or one of the omniversal gang) wanted to wipe out ALL the 616 to stop it -- not just wanda.
be clear -- i'm not categorically dismissing your view. just that from ALL the scans i've seen on this issue, it seems there is at least as much (and more imo, which is why i see it differently than you do) 'circumstantial proof' to say the wave was a by-product of her tampering as there is 'circumstantial proof' that the wave came directly from her.
The more Wanda Remade the Universe, the less she cared about Reality, because as X says, "she was losing her grip on Reality"
By the time the Wave reached 616, HOM was one issue away from finishing.
No, please,
you're a great debater, and you most certainly do not need to succumb to anyone's opinion around here, and to tell you the truth, I like your ideas, speculations, theories and sensible truths.
Ey,
I did say "the only HINT we have", I never made anything concrete.
Roma said, "the localized effects are so severe, I am unable to ascertain the cause"
So there was a reason behind her ignorance, or was that Wanda messing with her head? (speculation)
Well Wanda wasn't exactly wreaking havoc, she was only Re-creating that Reality.
I addressed this above.
Hey that's what I said.
There was a reason behind her ignorance as I said.
Well only because Roma didn't know exactly where it was coming from except that it did Originate in 616, where Wanda is.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
was the wave released at the time of that scan? when did readers find out that the wave was actually present? could you tell me what issue? i have hom proper, but not all the xovers i'm afraid . . . i'm also not sure exactly how that scan supports your case. how did you come to the idea that the wave would reach 616 from that scan? were mags and x even AWARE of the wave's existence?
thanks. the topics you tend to . . . revolve around are interesting and allow for lots of open-ended thought. they're generally fun topics.
fair 'nuff.
hmmm . . . maybe. seems like wanda craeted some kind of crazy . . . 'reality storm' for lack of a better term, and roma wasn't able to see through the fog. for that reason, we can't really say for sure HOW the wave came about. i don't think we've seen the last of this whole hom scenario though, so perhaps your idea will be born out in the future. for now, imo either theory is equally valid.
gotta disagree there, and point to your own quote above: "the localized effects are so severe, I am unable to ascertain the cause"
sounds like she was wreaking a whole LOT of havok to me.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
First time she remakes Reality is at the end of issue #1.
I'm not saying Mags and X are referring to the Wave, I'm pointing out that as Wanda Remade Reality, over and over again, she cared less about her own Reality (616) because her grip on Reality was less and less.
This suggest to me, (IMO) that Wanda subconsciously didn't allow the Wave to obliterate 616 immediately, otherwise it makes no sense that other Universes fell victim to the Wave, and yet 616 was spared when the Wave originated from 616.
touché
I'm eagerly awaiting any further info on the matter from Marvel, they have some explaining to do.
Sometimes they PIS all over a story and act as it never happened.
I have to disagree here aswell.
IMO, Roma couldn't see into 616 because of Wanda.
My reason:
Wanda created a beautiful Reality where everyone got their heart's desire, euphoria was everywhere.
Havoc was being spread outside 616, but 616 wasn't in danger till the end of the series.
forgive me for putting my two cents in but thats just stuipd for marvel to make ONE MUTANT strong enough to destroy the omniverse and how can it destroy the omniverse isnt even the real world part of that thats just dumb.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
having just read the WHOLE hom series discounting the xovers (up til now i'd only read bits and pieces of a few issues) i find it interesting that nowhere in the series itself (1-8) is the wave even MENTIONED. to me, this just adds to the idea that wanda herself may have been completely unaware of the wave and the omniversal effects of her altering reality. is there a xover issue where she is SHOWN to be aware of the wave? she seemed like she wanted to make everyone happy -- creating the wave is hardly in keeping with that. if it DID emanate from wanda, it seems to me she had no idea. that, or it was a HUGE side-effect of all her re-creations.
reading it over, i was also wondering about the EXTENT of her alterations. wolverine after all was able to see through the world she created on his own. doesn't that say that she didn't REALLY "fundamentally alter" the 616 universe? she seemed to fulfill wishes using prof x as a means of determining those wishes and a strong enough mind (or a screwed up enough mind in wolvie's case) was able to see through her "illusory" creation. had she fundamentally RE-CREATED things, doesn't it follow that all the characters' histories would ACTUALLY have changed? as it stood, it was more like she OVERLAID the TRUE reality with a DREAMWORLD and (again with x's help, presumably) erased/rewrote everyone's memory. impressive still, but for some reason NOT exactly what i was expecting.
more impressive was her globally wiping out the mutant powers, but even there it was hinted that she didn't 'really' just eliminate their powers. those powers seem to exist in someway, somewhere, maybe in a different form? the ending was . . . odd.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
hmm, that IS an interesting point. did you just put that together or did you read that? wolvie himself states that apparently his 'heart's desire' was to be 'nick fury'.
i like your explanation. i'm just wondering where you came up with it.
KMC Community Forums
Oct 20th, 2006 06:55 PM
civilly this time, i hope. 
