Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Another question. How did Stark go from killing off weak hollows just by strolling along to getting killed by a shikai? I don't get it.(or maybe he really was undeserving)
A Lieutenant almost died because she couldn't breath when Yamamoto was "powering" up. A LIEUTENANT!
So, knowing that, Yamamoto's reiatesu would kill most hollows up to an Adjuchas, imo.
Knowing that, someone with a lot of reiatesu should be able to kill quite a few hollows, like Starrk. Starrk's reiatesu didn't kill Lilynette, and she's likely at or below Lieutenant level, by a significant margin. Ukitakke said her cero wasn't even at a gillian level....so we know that Starrk wasn't as powerful as some people think.
Originally posted by dadudemonYet his power sky-rocketed in the same manner of which a Resurrecion does...
you make it seem as though they were equal halves when they were not. I'd say the Lilynette wasn't even a hundredth of Starrk.
Think of it like Piccolo and Kami from DBZ.
Alone, neither even compares to a Super Saiyan, especially Kami, not even being a hundredth of Piccolo.
Together, they are far above a normal SSJ.
Plus, THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON. Why would his own reitsu hurt him?
Originally posted by NemeBro
Yet his power sky-rocketed in the same manner of which a Resurrecion does...
Ahhh. So you have evidence that she was really really strong, right?
Wait, you don't. In fact, we have the exact opposite. thanks for playing. 🙂
Originally posted by NemeBro
Think of it like Piccolo and Kami from DBZ.Alone, neither even compares to a Super Saiyan, especially Kami, not even being a hundredth of Piccolo.
Together, they are far above a normal SSJ.
I will think of it that way. And, thanks for proving my point.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Plus, THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON. Why would his own reitsu hurt him?
Oh, so now you are giving reiatesu a characteristic that it does not have, huh?
BTW, they are not the same person, despite what he said. Yes, I know, weird, right? But, they are definitly their own distinct personages as they don't think they look like the original that they spawned from. And, when they become "one" again, Lily is still very much her own person, in the form of the guns, talking to Starrk. Pretty definitive that they are definitely their own separate being, much more so than a Zanpakutou and shinigami.
Sorry, mate, but Lily is definitely it's own separate entity. Even during the release, they are separate entities. The original being that they were once "one", no longer exists and each of them have their own distinct personality and traits. They only link they share, now, is one of having to release together (wow, that was perverted. WEEE!)
Even if Lilinette is a different person(I'm still skeptical) that make Stark look even more powerful seeing as how he acess power is sealed inside another arrancar rather than a sword. Even if Shunsui would've won anyway he could have at least used his bankai.
Originally posted by dadudemon
A Lieutenant almost died because she couldn't breath when Yamamoto was "powering" up. A LIEUTENANT!So, knowing that, Yamamoto's reiatesu would kill most hollows up to an Adjuchas, imo.
Knowing that, someone with a lot of reiatesu should be able to kill quite a few hollows, like Starrk. Starrk's reiatesu didn't kill Lilynette, and she's likely at or below Lieutenant level, by a significant margin. Ukitakke said her cero wasn't even at a gillian level....so we know that Starrk wasn't as powerful as some people think.
Lilinette was created before the duo encountered Aizen so she could have just gotten used to it like Yachiru did with Kenpachi.
Nanao sucks by the way!
Originally posted by King Kandy
I know, and imo he was definitely the coolest of the Espada.
I agree. Before his chat and fight with Shunsui, I thought Grimmjow was the coolest of the bunch, though his whole attitude threw me off a little.
Originally posted by Q99
Unohana cares not who wins and loses. She is above such matters.
You have her confused with Old man Yama.
Originally posted by dadudemon
A Lieutenant almost died because she couldn't breath when Yamamoto was "powering" up. A LIEUTENANT!So, knowing that, Yamamoto's reiatesu would kill most hollows up to an Adjuchas, imo.
Knowing that, someone with a lot of reiatesu should be able to kill quite a few hollows, like Starrk. Starrk's reiatesu didn't kill Lilynette, and she's likely at or below Lieutenant level, by a significant margin. Ukitakke said her cero wasn't even at a gillian level....so we know that Starrk wasn't as powerful as some people think.
Much higher. Aizen was able to bring Grimmjow to his knees without so much as breaking a sweat. Grimmjow in his unreleased form is beyond Adjuchas level imo, though not quite at Vasto Lorde level.
Yamamoto should easily trump that imo.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Ahhh. So you have evidence that she was really really strong, right?Wait, you don't. In fact, we have the exact opposite. thanks for playing. 🙂
I will think of it that way. And, thanks for proving my point.
Oh, so now you are giving reiatesu a characteristic that it does not have, huh?
BTW, they are not the same person, despite what he said. Yes, I know, weird, right? But, they are definitly their own distinct personages as they don't think they look like the original that they spawned from. And, when they become "one" again, Lily is still very much her own person, in the form of the guns, talking to Starrk. Pretty definitive that they are definitely their own separate being, much more so than a Zanpakutou and shinigami.
Sorry, mate, but Lily is definitely it's own separate entity. Even during the release, they are separate entities. The original being that they were once "one", no longer exists and each of them have their own distinct personality and traits. They only link they share, now, is one of having to release together (wow, that was perverted. WEEE!)
Or he became weaker when he became an Arrancar due to the original splitting his soul.
If Starrk said that they are the same person, I don't see how you can dispute that, despite what may seem like the more sensible explanation. IMO, it's more like a Dissociative identity disorder case, except both personalities are aware at the same time.
She is also his 'zanpakutou'. Arrancar seal their power in a sword, while Starrk chose to seal his power in Lilynette. He pretty much said that.
I presume she couldn't access said power, since none of the other Arrancar swords have been seen to access the special abilities the Arrancar had while it was a hollow.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Much higher. Aizen was able to bring Grimmjow to his knees without so much as breaking a sweat. Grimmjow in his unreleased form is beyond Adjuchas level imo, though not quite at Vasto Lorde level.Yamamoto should easily trump that imo.
What was much higher? If you're referring to Lilynette, she was weaker than a Menos.
Menos are one step above regular Hallow, and one step bellow Menos Grande. That's pretty weak, don't you think?
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Or he became weaker when he became an Arrancar due to the original splitting his soul.
Cept, that doens't quite explain the pile of hallows when Aizen found them, does it? 🙂
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
If Starrk said that they are the same person, I don't see how you can dispute that, despite what may seem like the more sensible explanation. IMO, it's more like a Dissociative identity disorder case, except both personalities are aware at the same time.
I already explained why. They are far less "one" than a Shinigami and his or her Zanpakutou are.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
She is also his 'zanpakutou'. Arrancar seal their power in a sword, while Starrk chose to seal his power in Lilynette. He pretty much said that.
I am not disputing that nor contradicting that. You can think of her as more like a more separate being than a Zanpakutou because she is always manifested and an individual, even when they "join" during the release.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I presume she couldn't access said power, since none of the other Arrancar swords have been seen to access the special abilities the Arrancar had while it was a hollow.
Huh? Accessing what power?
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka Even if Lilinette is a different person(I'm still skeptical) that make Stark look even more powerful seeing as how he acess power is sealed inside another arrancar rather than a sword. Even if Shunsui would've won anyway he could have at least used his bankai.
Well, I tend to agree with Nemebro on this. Together, they are stronger than the sum of their parts.
And, Shunsui said it would not show Starrk his Bankai, even if Starrk was stronger. I don't know why...is it possible that Shunsui has an apocolypse Bankai?
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Lilinette was created before the duo encountered Aizen so she could have just gotten used to it like Yachiru did with Kenpachi.Nanao sucks by the way!
That's a little unfair, don't you think? Yachiru is pretty dang strong. We gets hints of that throughout.
Edit - In fact, she's the Lieutenant of the 11th division..meaning, she bested any and all challengers except for Kenpachi.
You know, it strikes me Ichigo's mom was offed by a hollow who worked for Aizen.
And Aizen's zanpaku-to is quite capable of making a dead body or a long term appearance change, both of which we've seen him do.
And Aizen does seem to know all about Ichigo even before he shows up in Soul Society...
Aizen is Ichigo's mother.
Originally posted by Q99
You know, it strikes me Ichigo's mom was offed by a hollow who worked for Aizen.And Aizen's zanpaku-to is quite capable of making a dead body or a long term appearance change, both of which we've seen him do.
And Aizen does seem to know all about Ichigo even before he shows up in Soul Society...
Aizen is Ichigo's mother.
I was with you until the end there, mate.
That lost part was just major lol
😆
But, yeah, that'd be cool if Aizen had Ichigo's mother killed: it would be a NICE tie in story. Wasn't one of the captains missing in the flashback? What if that was Ichigo's father?
Originally posted by dadudemon
What was much higher? If you're referring to Lilynette, she was weaker than a Menos.
Yamamoto's ability to kill hollows with just his reiatsu.
You probably should re-read that part of the post again.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Cept, that doens't quite explain the pile of hallows when Aizen found them, does it? 🙂
It could. He became weaker, and killed those weak hollows with just his presence.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I already explained why. They are far less "one" than a Shinigami and his or her Zanpakutou are.
& I get your explanation, which to me, honestly makes more sense.
However, Starrk himself said that they become 'one' when Starrk releases. That's what my point was.
Hence why I compared it to Dissociative Identity disorder (or Multiple-Personality Disorder as it was once known).
Originally posted by dadudemon
Huh? Accessing what power?
Arrancar accessing their special abilities (unique abilities they had as hollows) through their sword while in their sealed form.
Originally posted by dadudemon
[QUOTE=12600270]Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Lilinette was created before the duo encountered Aizen so she could have just gotten used to it like Yachiru did with Kenpachi.Nanao sucks by the way!
That's a little unfair, don't you think? Yachiru is pretty dang strong. We gets hints of that throughout.
Edit - In fact, she's the Lieutenant of the 11th division..meaning, she bested any and all challengers except for Kenpachi. [/QUOTE]
Why have you quoted me as the one who posted that 😐?
It's the wakka dude that posted that.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yamamoto's ability to kill hollows with just his reiatsu.
You probably should re-read that part of the post again.
I did, man. I read my wall of text that you posted, over and over again, to try and deduce which protion you were referring to. I made about 5 points in the text you quoted. So, I gave up and decided to just ask. 😄
Now I know.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
It could. He became weaker, and killed those weak hollows with just his presence.
Which was my original point, exactly. If Starrk has rieryoku on par with a high-level captain, he should be able to kill most lower-level hallows.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
& I get your explanation, which to me, honestly makes more sense.
However, Starrk himself said that they become 'one' when Starrk releases. That's what my point was.Hence why I compared it to Dissociative Identity disorder (or Multiple-Personality Disorder as it was once known).
But, they don't become one, at all. She becomes the guns. She can still talk, and she has her own personality, still. Starrk can say whatever he wants about it, they, at the most literal level, are not one at all.
And, it is not like DID. Neither one is the original and neither one looks like the original. The original, quite literally, split into two different beings with Starrk being the much much stronger "half."
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Arrancar accessing their special abilities (unique abilities they had as hollows) through their sword while in their sealed form.
K.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Why have you quoted me as the one who posted that 😐?
It's the wakka dude that posted that.
It happens once in a blue moon. The last time I did that was about 2 years ago when I was arguing with Digi in the religion thread.
😐
Originally posted by dadudemon
I did, man. I read my wall of text that you posted, over and over again, to try and deduce which protion you were referring to. I made about 5 points in the text you quoted. So, I gave up and decided to just ask. 😄
My fault then.
So, what comment have you on Yamamoto? I believe Yamamoto's level of reiatsu is higher than Aizen's.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Which was my original point, exactly. If Starrk has rieryoku on par with a high-level captain, he should be able to kill most lower-level hallows.
Then why'd you put this if you agree about Starrk becoming weaker after the split and being able to kill weaker hollows 😬:
Originally posted by dadudemon
Cept, that doens't quite explain the pile of hallows when Aizen found them, does it? 🙂
Originally posted by dadudemon
But, they don't become one, at all. She becomes the guns. She can still talk, and she has her own personality, still. Starrk can say whatever he wants about it, they, at the most literal level, are not one at all.
When Starrk uses those wolves, the guns disappear. Lilynette now talks through Starrk.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/373/01/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/373/02-03/
So yeah. They share the same body at that point, and I was mostly referring to this specific point in their release when I said it resembled 'Dissociative Identity Disorder' somewhat.
EDIT - Continued to read the chapter.
Yeah, I guess you are right about the situation of their release up until the wolves.
I get their situation now.
They are only one in 'body'. They refer to themselves as 'we' at that point (wolves). Starrk's the dominant one/personality though.
Damn, I must admit, the wolves thing was pretty badass.
Originally posted by dadudemon
And, it is not like DID. Neither one is the original and neither one looks like the original. The original, quite literally, split into two different beings with Starrk being the much much stronger "half."
~ It's somewhat like DID once Starrk releases and the wolves appear. I was talking about that part. My bad for not mentioning it.
Well, we don't exactly know if neither looks like the original, just that they cannot remember which of them looked like the original.
Though Starrk did have that whole loneliness thing going on, just like the original, while Lilynette didn't. I can't remember anything similar between Lilynette and the original hollow's description, so I presume that the original hollow was more like Starrk than Lilynette.
Originally posted by dadudemon
It happens once in a blue moon. The last time I did that was about 2 years ago when I was arguing with Digi in the religion thread.😐
Or that may have been the last time someone pointed out something like that to you.
😛
Originally posted by dadudemonPoint out where I argued for Lilynette being strong.
That Lilynette was weak as ****. How did you miss that even when you argued that point pretty damn hardcore?
My point was that Starrk's reitsu does not affect Lilynette because they are essentially the same being, Starrk created her from a portion of his own soul.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
My fault then.So, what comment have you on Yamamoto? I believe Yamamoto's level of reiatsu is higher than Aizen's.
Then why'd you put this if you agree about Starrk becoming weaker after the split and being able to kill weaker hollows 😬:
When Starrk uses those wolves, the guns disappear. Lilynette now talks through Starrk.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/373/01/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/373/02-03/So yeah. They share the same body at that point, and I was mostly referring to this specific point in their release when I said it resembled 'Dissociative Identity Disorder' somewhat.
EDIT - Continued to read the chapter.
Yeah, I guess you are right about the situation of their release up until the wolves.
I get their situation now.
They are only one in 'body'. They refer to themselves as 'we' at that point (wolves). Starrk's the dominant one/personality though.Damn, I must admit, the wolves thing was pretty badass.
~ It's somewhat like DID once Starrk releases and the wolves appear. I was talking about that part. My bad for not mentioning it.
Well, we don't exactly know if neither looks like the original, just that they cannot remember which of them looked like the original.
Though Starrk did have that whole loneliness thing going on, just like the original, while Lilynette didn't. I can't remember anything similar between Lilynette and the original hollow's description, so I presume that the original hollow was more like Starrk than Lilynette.
Or that may have been the last time someone pointed out something like that to you.
😛
Pwned.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Pwned.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixEDIT - Continued to read the chapter.
Yeah, I guess you are right about the situation of their release up until the wolves.
I get their situation now.
They are only one in 'body'. They refer to themselves as 'we' at that point (wolves). Starrk's the dominant one/personality though.
I admitted that right here, and I handed you the scan.
In addition, you stated that Lilynette took her own form as the guns, so j00 got pwned as well 131.
