Originally posted by Da Pittman
It is a trick by Mother Nature to get me not to believe in the Holy Apple 😛
Was it coincidental that it was an apple Adam eat in the garden, that got him in trouble, and an apple that fell on Newtons head, that inspired the theory of gravity? Is this proof that science is controlled by Satan? 😆
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Not true. The following link shows some of the differences. Please review and explain.
* hi, mr.shakyamunison... it took some time before i got here again... regarding the supposed "contradictions" of Jesus Christ and His apostle Paul, i believe virtually all the verses posted by the author from the site you gave ignored the context... i'll try to justify those things according to the Bible:
1. On the time of the coming of the Lord:Paul says:
Rom.13
[12] the night is far gone, the day is at hand.Jesus says:
Luke.21
[8] Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name,
saying, . . . `The time is at hand!' Do not go after them.
* let us read what Jesus said:
"And he said, Take heed that ye be not led astray: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am he; and, The time is at hand: go ye not after them.'
Luke 21:8
* Jesus was talking about false christs saying "the time is at hand", take note of the conjunction "and"... saying the phrase, "the time is at hand" is not wrong because Jesus Himself said it when He began to preach:
"Now after John was delivered up, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe in the gospel."
Mark 1:14-15
* Christ even commanded His apostles to preach this:
"And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Matthew 10:7
* the point is, Jesus is warning us about false prophets claiming to be christs:
"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall lead many astray."
Matthew 24:5
* Saint Paul never ever claimed to be Christ... in fact, Paul said:
"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,"
Romans 1:1
2. On the source of the Truth and the true gospel:Paul says:
1Cor.2
[13] And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit.
Gal.1
[12] For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.Jesus says:
John.17
[14] I have given them thy word;
[17] Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
* there's no contradiction: the word of God was given by Christ, so it was not taught by human wisdom, it was through the revelation of Christ... but when Christ is not here on earth physically, the Holy Spirit will teach us:
"But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you."
John 14:26
3. On the God of the dead:Paul says:
Rom.14
[9] For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.Jesus says:
Luke.20
[38] Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living;
* this shows Biblical ignorance... apostle Paul is talking about Jesus Christ... and Jesus Christ was talking about God the Father...
4. On the sum of the commandments:Paul says:
Rom.13
[9] The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.Jesus says:
Matt.22
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.
* firstly, Jesus was asked which the great commandment in the law is... Jesus answered that it's loving God and neighbors... but you know what Saint Paul said? he is not talking about the great commandment in the law... he is talking about the ultimate truth:
"For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
Galatians 5:14
* why? how come? take a look at Saint John's logic:
"If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also."
I John 4:20-21
5. On whom God has mercy:Paul says:
Rom.9
[15] For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
[16] So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.
[18] So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills.Jesus says:
Matt.5
[7] Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
* another ignorance... Saint Paul is not the one who originally wrote that passage:
"And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."
Exodus 33:19
* it was written by Moses and the passage was said by the Father Himself... now, does the passage said by God contradicts what Jesus said? nope... true, God will give mercy on merciful people... but what if a person is not merciful? on that situation, God has a prerogative to give mercy on that person or not...
6. On forgiveness of trespasses:Paul says:
Eph.1
[7] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace
Rom.4
[25] who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification.Jesus says:
Matt.6
[14] For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you;
[15] but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
* this is about context... Saint Paul was talking about how the members of the Church were cleansed by Christ's sacrifice and through baptism... while Christ was preaching the commandment of God in general...
7. On being justified:Paul says:
Rom.3
[24] they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
[28] For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.
Rom.5
[9] Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.Jesus says:
Matt.12
[37] for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.
* here, Jesus was talking in specifics, about blasphemy, about words unsuitable for Christians to utter... and Saint Paul was talking about justification in general...
8. On the cost of eternal life:Paul says:
Rom.6
[23] For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.Jesus says:
Matt.19
[29] And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.
Luke.14
[28] For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?
[33] So therefore, whoever of you does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.
* the gift of God - eternal life - really is free... Jesus in Luke 14 was not talking about eternal life though... and the one in Matthew 19 has again, the conjunction "and" which simply means the houses, lands, etc. is not the cost of eternal life...
9. On what is honorable among men:Paul says:
2Cor.8
[21] for we aim at what is honorable not only in the Lord's sight but also in the sight of men.
Rom.12
[17] Repay no one evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all men.
Rom.14
[18] he who thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
1Cor.10
[33] just as I try to please all men in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.Jesus says:
Luke.16
[15] But he said to them, You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts; for what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
Luke.6
[26] Woe to you, when all men speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.
* there is no contradiction: 'nuff said... not even connected...
10. On Dying:Paul says:
I Corinthians 15
31: I protest, brethren, by my pride in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!Jesus says:
John 11
26: and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.
* this is pretty funny... if you read the whole chapter 15 of I Corinthians, Saint Paul is preaching about resurrection... the author of the site only posted Saint Paul's premise, not his conclusion nor the doctrine he was preaching...
11. On the basis of judgment:Paul says:
Rom.2
[12] All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.Jesus says:
John.12
[48] He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.
* Jesus said that the judge would be His words... what law is Paul talking about?
"Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ."
Galatians 6:2
12. On the commandments and eternal life:Paul says:
Rom.7
[9] I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died;
[10] the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me.Jesus says:
Matt.19
[17] And he said to him, Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.
* Saint Paul was talking about his past personal life... he considered his sinful past life as "dead"... there is no connection, and there is obviously no contradiction...
13. On your father:Paul says:
1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Phlm.1
[10] I appeal to you for my child, Ones'imus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.Jesus says:
Matt.23
[9] And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
* Saint Paul never ever teaches anyone to call him "father"... the author was twisting Paul's epistles by the use of different translations... closest to the original manuscripts, the right and trustworthy version is:
"For though ye have ten thousand tutors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I begat you through the gospel."
I Corinthians 4:15
"I beseech thee for my child, whom I have begotten in my bonds, Onesimus,"
Philemon 10
14. On qualifying for eternal life:Paul says:
Rom.5
[21] so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Jesus says:
John.5
[24] Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
* Saint Paul is speaking to the Church members... Jesus is preaching to all people, both members & non-members... in the book of John, Jesus categorizes & qualifies how to obtain eternal life by hearing His words:
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;"
John 8:31
* hearing and believing is the start, but it's not enough... a person must continue to abide by the word of Christ:
"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deluding your own selves.
For if any one is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a mirror:
For he beholdeth himself, and goeth away, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was."
James 1:22-24
15. On the destiny of the creation (heavens and earth):Paul says:
Rom.8
[21] because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God.Jesus says:
Matt.24
[35] Heaven and earth will pass away,
* again, overlooked the context:
"For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope
That the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."
Romans 8:20-22
* the heaven and earth will truly pass away... 'nuff said...
16. On the destiny of the Law and the Prophets:Paul says:
Rom.10
[4] For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.Jesus says:
Matt.5
[17] Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
[18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
* Christ is the end of the law... Christ even said:
"The law and the prophets were until John: from that time the gospel of the kingdom of God is preached, and every man entereth violently into it."
Luke 16:16
* if the law were only until John the Baptist, Jesus Christ is truly the end of the law, Saint Paul is correct... and what law is Christ talking about? specifics:
"And he said unto them, These are my words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must needs be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and the prophets, and the psalms, concerning me."
Luke 24:44
* Christ is not talking about the law in general... but the things written that concerns Him only...
17. On the number and identity of teachers:Paul says:
1Cor.12
[28] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third, teachers,
Eph.4
[11] And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
1Tim.2
[7] For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
2Tim.1
[11] For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher,Jesus says:
Matt.23
[8] But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren.
"But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren."
Matthew 23:8
* who is that one Teacher/Master?
"For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."
Jude 4
* that one Teacher/Master is Jesus Christ... what is the commandment of Christ regarding His apostles?
"He that heareth you heareth me; and he that rejecteth you rejecteth me; and he that rejecteth me rejecteth him that sent me."
Luke 10:16
"He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me."
Matthew 10:40
* Christ commanded His apostles to preach and teach:
"Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the consummation of the ages."
Matthew 28:19-20
* so Christ's apostles are also preachers and teachers... but they (apostles) are not that one Teacher - Christ was talking about...
18. On the number to be saved:Paul says:
Rom.11
[25] Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in,
[26] and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob.Jesus says:
Matt.7
[13] Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
[14] For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
* brief history: Israel is the city of God, then Israel turned against God and switched to idolatry, God then offered salvation to the Gentiles:
"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
Matthew 21:43
* but if the Israel will repent, they will obtain mercy and even be saved:
"For as ye in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience,
Even so have these also now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they also may now obtain mercy.
For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all."
Romans 11:30-32
* and what is the desire of God?
"This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
I Timothy 2:3-4
* God desires all people to be saved, like what Paul said... but if there are disobedient people, like what the Israel was when they became idolaters, how can they obtain mercy? so it might be few, like what Jesus said...
19. On the number and identity of pastors (shepherds):Paul says:
Eph.4
[11] And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors (shepherds) and teachers,Jesus says:
John.10
[16] And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
20. On the number and identity of leaders:Paul says:
1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless leaders in Christ . . ..Jesus says:
Matt.23
[10] Neither be called leaders, for you have one leader, the Christ.
* same as number 17...
21: On total depravity:Paul says:
Rom.3
[9] What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all; for I have already charged that all men, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin,
[10] as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
[22] For there is no distinction;
[23] since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, . . ..Jesus says:
Matt.12
[35] The good man out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.
Luke.6
[45] The good man out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure produces evil; for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
Matt.23
[35] that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechari'ah the son of Barachi'ah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.
* misinterpretation...
"Surely there is not a righteous man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not."
Ecclesiastes 7:20
* both statements are correct... one can be called righteous, however even righteous persons commits sin, but still can be called righteous... and Paul was talking about sin in its absolute sense... the people Paul was talking about were not really righteous, they are in fact, evil... no one sought for God...
22. On unconditional election:Paul says:
Rom.9
[16] So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.Jesus says:
Matt.7
[21] Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[22] On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' [23] And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.
* both statement are correct and there is no contradiction...
23. On sacrifices to God:Paul says:
1Cor.5
[7] For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed.
Eph.5
[2] And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.Jesus says:
Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'
* sacrifice of what? take note that Jesus was talking to the Pharisees which were still keeping the law of Moses of sacrificing animals as an act of serving God... Jesus said what He desires from them are mercy, not sacrifice... Paul, on the other hand, was preaching the sacrifice of Jesus for the salvation of those who believe in Him (Jesus)... there is no connection...
24. On remuneration for preaching the gospel:Paul says:
1Tim.5
[17] Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;
[18] for the scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages.
1Cor.9
[11] If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits?
[12] If others share this rightful claim upon you, do not we still more?Jesus says:
Matt.10
[7] And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
[8] Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay.
* Jesus is correct, apostles should not ask for payments... and Paul was not asking for payments, he was talking about the collection of the saints... even in the time of Jesus, there are collections:
"And he sat down over against the treasury, and beheld how the multitude cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
And there came a poor widow, and she cast in two mites, which make a farthing.
And he called unto him his disciples, and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, This poor widow cast in more than all they that are casting into the treasury:
For they all did cast in of their superfluity; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living."
Mark 12:41-44
* what are those collections for?
"And he that supplieth seed to the sower and bread for food, shall supply and multiply your seed for sowing, and increase the fruits of your righteousness:
Ye being enriched in everything unto all liberality, which worketh through us thanksgiving to God.
For the ministration of this service not only filleth up the measure of the wants of the saints, but aboundeth also through many thanksgivings unto God;
Seeing that through the proving of you by this ministration they glorify God for the obedience of your confession unto the gospel of Christ, and for the liberality of your contribution unto them and unto all;
While they themselves also, with supplication on your behalf, long after you by reason of the exceeding grace of God in you."
II Corinthians 9:10-14
* it is mainly to supply the spreading of the word of God in several places...
25. On how one becomes a child of God:Paul says:
Rom.8
[23] and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Gal.4
[5] to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.Jesus says:
John.3
[3] Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is begotten from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is begotten of the flesh is flesh, and that which is begotten of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Do not marvel that I said to you, `You must be begotten from above.
* once again, Saint Paul was talking about the ultimate truth... the true begotten of the Father is Jesus Christ... we can be children of God, like what Jesus said... but technically, since Christ is the only begotten Son of God, we are children in adoption...
* i hope this clears it all up... 🙂
Re: Re: Is God and Jesus the same person?
Originally posted by Naz
it depends what relegion you are talking about. illtry to explain best i can in the light of my relegion.but ok, see there is one God, ok. and this one God is made up of 3 differnt people. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Ok, and now alot of people don't understand this here part, thats why they claim thet Catholics aren't monotheistic, but though there are 3 person in God, there is still only one God, like how a clover has three leaves, yet it is still a single clover.