No, you tried to disprove God with an example of some guy you met in a pub. Others may disagree with that philosophy.
It's my freewill whether to ignore the law. Regardless of my freewill, and the fact that I love it, there's also justice. God, in reality, has his love enslaved to his sense of justice. If you choose to attempt murder, you can be stopped. If you choose to not believe in God, you go to hell. It's not hate, it's justice for sinning. We also have a conscience, and that must be used to moderate our free will.
No there doesn't. Space/time is curved at the edges, according to most, and isn't infinite. There's nothing. The laws of space/time are not active outside the universe. This means that instead of a sideways eight symbol, you'd put a 0 symbol to represent that. The only thing that's hard to grasp is outside the edge, where there are no dimensions. Onto some infinity stuff
1. I have infinity apples. I give you infinity.
2. I have infinity apples. I give you all the odd numbers
3. I have infinity apples. I give you all the ones higher than ten.
1. Infinity-Infinity= Zero
2. Infinity-Infinity= Infinity
3. Infinity-infinity= Ten
This makes it impossible. Anyway, here are some websites suggesting a finite universe
I'd say if people separated Catholic, and Protestant, and breakaway sects like Jehovah’s Witness' (Who rewrote the Bible) that would be enough. Most moral differences about Christians between Protestants and Catholics are unimportant. The fact that Catholics pray to beings other than God to boost their prayer power to God isn't going to effect many discussions. If you're talking about something a Pope said, that should be called Catholic. If you're talking about the divinity of Christ, Christianity is enough.
they call themselves catholic to say what branch of chrisitaity they belong to. Like they dont wanna be identified with the othere branches of christianity.
Chrisitans are simply proclaim a belief in jesus as christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of jesus.
Somewhat of a contradiction there, considering you said earlier god was impossible because he/it had either existed forever or had been created by some superior being. Basically you're describing existence in the same way many people describe god. Therefore, you're saying existence itself is impossible, which I doubt is a point you're trying to make.
Incidently, if you put God in an infinite universe, he doesn't exist. He can only exist for a finite amount of time. Before he set up dimensions, there was no time. So he existed forever, otherwise known as about 14 billion years.
""If a God created the universe as a perfect work in his own image then obviously, as God is perfect, his creation must also be perfect – he did after he finished creating say that everything is good, and “good” means just that - no visible change in the development of species or cosmic constellations would have been present if everything was as “good” and “perfect” as only a God can create it.""
It was perfect...until sin entered the world via the devil. For heavens sakes, read the Bible before u make a "Biblical" arguement.
""and then saying that there is a creator even more complicated and ordered who created the universe but who doesn’t have a cause himself?!""
God is smarter than you, he doesnt need to give you a reason to someone who will never understand even if it is explained to him a million times. God reveals what is needed as stated in the Old Testament. There is more than enough evidence of his existence to where you dont need nor can u fathom the extend of his superior and omnipotent knowledge. Once more, God doesnt need a creator, the Bible (Word of God) states he was, is, and is to come. He was not only there from the beginning, he will always be and has already been.
""and if god is so omnipotent then he knows everyone before hand and if so we come to conclusion that god new hitler and new what he was going to do to the jews.
in this case was hitlers purification an act of god?""
No duh. Is everybody who proclaims to be a Christian really so ignorant. The Jews were killed for a reason. We dont know exactly what, but everything happend for a reason. Relating to what you attempted to argue in your above passage, God ALLOWED the devil to tempt Eve, therefore, allowing sin into the world. Why in the world? Well, as most people who has studied the Bible and believes knows, God is concerned with HIS GLORY more than anything else. This act of allowing sin in the world will contribute to his ultimate glorification. How? God is most glorified when we (Christians) are most satisfied in him and not the petty world. When we are in sin and have trials, we pray to God, and through his power, we overcome it. By trusting in him, evil is overthrown. This also translates to missions. When one is martyred for the glory of God. "I cannot explain my fathers death except through divine intervention" said one young boy when his father was matyred in Sudan. HE KNEW that it was God at work for his glory. What was he saying? God killed my dad. God killed Jesus.............
All things for good. God killed Jesus so taht we have the sacrifice we need to be able to enter the gates of heaven.
Blaspheme all you want, judgement day is closer than you think.
Create doesnt mean to create something new out of nothing but in this instance it does. As is implied by evolution, non life arising from life, singularity coming into existance sans cause and creating the universe sans cause. I dont believe persay that man was supposed to be perfect though, man was good in spirit (untainted). That is what it means. It also states in the bible that everything was created good etc but once since entered into the world things changed.
That was one of the weakest and I do mean weakest, attempts at arguing for evolution. I can only hope that that was a joke on your part. Oh btw, what new species are appearing constantly?
How would plan etc be a problem for God? Of course God didnt need to be created, the implication is silly. As we know in our universe, the cause of law and effect exists. For something to come into existence, it needs a cause. God is eternal.
Again, this was another one of the weakest arguments ive ever heard for evolution.
click click all though you bring a strong arguments this isnt about evolution but you cant see there isnt evolution because thats saying you dont believe things can adapt but your clinging to religious cliches
its understandble that he has not said the absolute truth because there is no absolute truth but he has hit the tip of the iceberg you cant just say hes wrong though his theory is just as plausible as yours yes iam saying god is a theory until ive seen legitimate proof and not some bible bullshit i will bow down and kiss gods ass
that post i made above was of another because philo brings a strong argument and i wanted to pass it along to others and that was just an answer i got.
also iam god for i can create and destroy just as you are god.
people are ever changing the natural hieght a long time ago was 5 foot it is now to 5'9-6 foot so you cant say evolution cannot be for we are ever changing ever adapting
Well, I didnt say that microevolution doesn't exist, we know it does. However, there is another type of evolution that is theorized by evolutionists. It is known as macroevolution. It is not based on evidence, it is merely conjecture that is being used in an attempt to oppose creationism.
Snakes to dogs, elephants to people and so on. We have seen species become extinct and so on but where is the legitimate (non fraudulent) proof that macroevolution took place? People are and have been fed excessive amounts of mendacities. Students are being taught stuff that we know is fraudulent.
Anyway, for me the whole evolution vs creationism debate becomes tiresome, it is unfruitful. I find it more practical (in the interest of having a fruitful discussion) to have a philosiphical debate on the existence of morals and so on.
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Last edited by clickclick on Jan 17th, 2005 at 01:46 AM
understandable both opinions are plausible and those are just two think of all the theories that havent been brought to the mainstream
oh and thanks for not acting like an ass philo and finti go beserk when they dont like what they hear
oh and the new species deal he doesnt mean entire new species just new adaptations of said species
Last edited by brandino on Jan 17th, 2005 at 02:09 AM
Brandino and Arena host - you two seem to be the only ones here who correctly understand what I attempted to convey. For the rest who posted here - please think clearly about what I've written and think again before you make incorrect assumptions.
Last note on infinity - Existence has to be infinite, to suggest it isn't is simply irrational, because if you postulate a finite existence then what do you suppose is beyond that finite entity? - there must be something beyond it and that translates into infinity.
Dont pat yourself on the back too hard there, you have no clue what you are talking about. Existence is infinite? The existence of what?
The universe? We know thats not the case. Ive read many theories on this one, truth is though that they all amount to illogical conclusions save for one.
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Jan 14th, 2005 11:49 PM
