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A little basic Psychology for you Bardock at age 12 the brain starts to understand self is not the centre of the universe, obviously for people who follow this type of thinking this never happens
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Even if he didn't suffer from the disease...yes he had a nervous breakdown...can haapen to anyone anytime...doesn't make him wrong.....maybe he helped the horse cause of his insanity....would prove his point just further
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he isn't saying that he was capaciously doing it for himself but rather that when you get to the bottom of it he didn't want to see the horse hurt because it hurt him to see it happen. So it all comes back to him. At least I think thats what you're saying bardock I apologize if I'm wrong.
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No he was overcome with compassion, that aside his yay sayers claim inherited brain disease, drug use etc etc.
On he did not see himself as a Superman
Why am I so wise?", "Why am I so clever?", "Why am I a destiny?" -- with these words Nietzsche finished one of his last works on 1888 - his autobiography Ecce Homo, How One Becomes What One Is.
I think this speaks for itself
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A little basic Psychology for you...its just a vague set of theories...nothing proven...someone has an idea and explains it one way...another one the other.....
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You have made assumptions about my beliefs and you make assumptions about my motivations. I disagree with yours but I do not call them simple even though most psychologists would argue the inability to show compassion for compassion's sake is deviant and immature. Interestingly enough you assumed I would not have read an old Prussians philosophical ramblings.
Your superiority complex is amusing we will have to discuss which universities and courses we studied at sometime
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Last edited by Sir Whirlysplat on Jul 10th, 2005 at 02:43 PM
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Actually you did call them simple but that doesn't matter. Psychologists don't really know anything aboot our mind..they know bits but even that are theories....to call Psychology a science is an insult to every Science out there.
And of course I only mean those beliefs that are obvious because you stated them i.e. Belief in Compassion.....
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I agree much of psychology is not science, however it is at least as well thought out as anything from Willheim.
I do think you need to avoid the filibuster tactic of "You should read or your simple" and stick to arguing the point.
You brought up Nietzsche and the most accepted version of his death undermines your argument as it did his.
Nietzsche, having spent his whole life stubbornly preaching the merits of what he called the will to power, stepped outside his Turin apartment one fine day to see a horse being beaten by its carriage driver. He cracked. Nietzsche threw himself between the driver and the horse, and he wrapped his arms around the horse, whispering in consoling tones.
Here's where it gets sketchy. Some people believe Nietzsche uttered one thing in this intimate moment with the horse (e.g., "Sing me a new song! The World is transformed, and all the Heavens sing for joy!"), some people say he said something else, and some people say he never spoke a word again. This third claim can be discarded, as there are still records available of letters Nietzsche wrote and conversations he had after being admitted to the asylum where he'd die after 11 years of largely incoherent madness; these letters are curious reads, but only because the guy is nutty as a fruitcake, and not because he's continuing to make a contribution to the fields of philosophy or philology.
As if these details weren't sketchy enough, there are many medical professionals/historians who believe that Nietzsche actually faked his affliction. There is even a conspiracy theory about his sister Elizabeth "setting the whole thing up" in an attempt to discredit him. While this is clearly ludicrous, it does serve to illustrate the reaction of the many devoted followers of the philosopher, who perceived the tale of his breakdown as a compromise of the strength he had preached.
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Last edited by Sir Whirlysplat on Jul 10th, 2005 at 02:54 PM
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and on Willheim and Nazis
There was some ground for this appropriation of Nietzsche as one of the originators of the Nazi Weltanschauung. Had not the philosopher thundered against democracy and parliaments, preached the will to power, praised war and proclaimed the coming of the master race and the superman--and in the most telling aphorisms? A Nazi could proudly quote him on almost every conceivable subject, and did. On Christianity: "the one great curse, the one enormous and innermost perversion... I call it the one immortal blemish of mankind.... This Christianity is no more than the typical teaching of the Socialists." On the State, power, and the jungle world of man: "Society has never regarded virtue as anything other than as a means to strength, power, and order. The State [is] unmorality organized... the will to war, to conquest and revenge... Society is not entitled to exist for its own sake but only as a substructure and scaffolding by means of which a select race of beings may elevate themselves to their higher duties... There is no such thing as the right to live, the right to work, or the right to be happy: in this respect man is no different from the meanest worm." (Women, whom Nietzsche never had, he consigned to a distinctly inferior status, as did the Nazis, who decreed that their place was in the kitchen and their chief role in life to beget children for German warriors. Nietzsche put the idea this way: "Man shall be trained for war and woman for the procreation of the warrior. All else is folly." He went further. In Thus Spake Zarathustra he exclaims: "Thou goest to woman? Do not forget thy whip!"...) And he exalted the superman as the beast of prey, "the magnificent blond brute, avidly rampant for spoil and victory."
And war? Here Nietzsche took the view of most of the other nineteenth-century German thinkers. In the thundering Old Testament language in which Thus Spake Zarathustra is written, the philosopher cries out: "Ye shall love peace as a means to new war, and the short peace more than the long. You I advise not to work, but to fight. You I advise not to peace but to victory.... Ye say it is the good cause which halloweth even war? I say unto you: it is the good war which halloweth every cause. War and courage have done more great things than charity."
Finally there was Nietzsche's prophecy of the coming elite who would rule the world and from whom the superman would spring. In The Will to Power he exclaims: "A daring and ruler race is building itself up.... The aim should be to prepare a transvaluation of values for a particularly strong kind of man, most highly gifted in intellect and will. This man and the elite around him will become the 'lords of the earth'."
Such rantings from one of Germany's most original minds must have struck a responsive chord in Hitler's littered mind. At any rate he appropriated them for his own--not only the thoughts but the philosopher's penchant for grotesque exaggeration, and often his very words. "Lords of the Earth" is a familiar expression in Mein Kampf. That in the end Hitler considered himself the superman of Nietzsche's prophecy cannot be doubted....
Do you see yourself as one of the ruling elite eventually Bardock is that why you have disregard for human compassion?
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Whirly please get that..I never said anything like that...I nevver attacked you personally...no did I say reading was important...I called a beliefsystem simple...nothing more...not you...not anyone else....
As for his madness...what should he do? IOf he is ill he cant really control what he perceives anymore...his deat and the time in teh Asylum in no way disproves any of his teachings....
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I think judging someones beliefs as simple is personal and arrogant, but I forgive you
I state again:
There is even a conspiracy theory about his sister Elizabeth "setting the whole thing up" in an attempt to discredit him. While this is clearly ludicrous, it does serve to illustrate the reaction of the many devoted followers of the philosopher, who perceived the tale of his breakdown as a compromise of the strength he had preached.
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You make a lot of assumptions as to what Nietzsche meant, I saved this for you, first in Hitlers then in Nietzsche's own words.
In Hitler's utterances there runs the theme that the supreme leader is above the morals of ordinary men. Hegel and Nietzsche thought so too.... Nietzsche, with his grotesque exaggeration, goes much further:
The strong men, the masters, regain the pure conscience of a beast of prey; monsters filled with joy, they can return from a fearful succession of murder, arson, rape, and torture with the same joy in their hearts, the same contentment in their souls as if they had indulged in some student's rag.... When a man is capable of commanding, when he is by nature a "Master," when he is violent in act and gesture, of what importance are treaties to him?... To judge morality properly, it must be replaced by two concepts borrowed from zoology: the taming of a beast and the breeding of a specific species.
Pretty clear in my opinion, what do you think this means Bardock?
Have you read Nietzsche?
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I read aboot him, I currently read "Also sprach Zarathustra" ....so this are not solely my assumptions what Nietzsche meant....its what some of he Philosophical writers of Germany think.
It means that the Humans are not caring...especially the strong ones don't have to.....so the concept of morals is wrong and has to be exchanged the morals must be brought to the people like you tame a beast...and a new better Race of Humans must be created.....doesn't involve any Holocaust any Aryans or anything that would justify what Hitler did....
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OK I read Nietzsche long ago, I'm about to make some assumptions myself, maybe before you were born.
What is more harmful than any vice? - Active sympathy for the ill-constituted and weak - Nietzsche
and in rebuttle
This is an old quote now common on the net
I would ask Nietzsche, What is a more explicit manifestation of weakness than to deny the receptiveness of the human mind to the world, to deny one's knowledge of the suffering of the horse, because one cannot handle it? Sympathy is no contemptible choice, it is neither contemptible nor choice, but rather a natural reflex of one's humanity, a receptiveness to the world that exists in all humankind, though he may try and fail to curtail or deny it. It is in such a way that humanity is connected to all the things it comprehends. And more sad and limiting than any other vice is it to deny what one necessarily feels because one is either too terrified of the truth or too weak to know and deal with the suffering of the horse, the suffering a human being vicariously endures proportionate to his knowledge of it.
Humanity pays for the fire of comprehension it has stolen from the gods by enduring the pain of all horses, by having access to all suffering. So Nietzsche vehemently denied; so Nietszche learned.
To omit sympathy from one's repetoire of feeling is to deny to understand. Nietzsche paid for his hubris.
Before you call peoples beliefs simple, don't omit anything.
-Whirly
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I think the role of the Leaders clearly explains why Hitler looked to Willheims writings, read it again.
You make a lot of assumptions as to what Nietzsche meant, I saved this for you, first in Hitlers then in Nietzsche's own words.
In Hitler's utterances there runs the theme that the supreme leader is above the morals of ordinary men. Hegel and Nietzsche thought so too.... Nietzsche, with his grotesque exaggeration, goes much further:
The strong men, the masters, regain the pure conscience of a beast of prey; monsters filled with joy, they can return from a fearful succession of murder, arson, rape, and torture with the same joy in their hearts, the same contentment in their souls as if they had indulged in some student's rag.... When a man is capable of commanding, when he is by nature a "Master," when he is violent in act and gesture, of what importance are treaties to him?... To judge morality properly, it must be replaced by two concepts borrowed from zoology: the taming of a beast and the breeding of a specific species.
Pretty clear in my opinion, what do you think this means Bardock?
As someone whith Roma blood I find this section particularly offensive.
To judge morality properly, it must be replaced by two concepts borrowed from zoology: the taming of a beast and the breeding of a specific species.
-Whilry
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