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There is the factor that maybe Superman has a power limit (say the solar energy makes his strength 3000 tonnes but the power cosmic already makes his strength more than that - are the levels added together). I think Onslaught could take him down and definitely Tyrant and Thanos. Juggernaut is always an uphill struggle as well so he might cause some trouble - Superman hits him, he goes flying but then he gets up and says, "No-one can beat the incredibly obnoxious Juggernaut". Eventually the force field shuts down and Supes moves onto next person but its probably tiring. Onslaught is underrated - it took many more heroes than Doctor Strange to kill him and it took a year of general blasting and punching.
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Think of it this way.
Normal Superman can move around a third of the Moon's mass (meaning he can move 24.7 Quintillion tons i.e 24,700,000,000,000,000,000 tons). That is definitely much more than 3,000 tons.
Now, take All-Star Superman.
He spent a brief amount of time in the sun,and thus his abilities and capabilities (ranging from physical to mental to powers) went off the roof.
In the first comic he was holding up a 200 quintillion ton force....with just one hand ....and not even showing exertion.
Hence he was doing with one hand something that he was not able to do while straining (the Moon's mass is 74 quintillion tons, and it needed Superman, Martian Manhunter and WonderWoman together to move it .......All Star Superman, after a brief time in the sun, was holding up 200 quintillion tons with one hand and not showing effort).
Mull on that a bit.
Then compare it with your 3,000 ton comment.
Thus it shows that a brief sun-dip would be sufficient to make Superman get stronger (and not just mere physical strength, but everything) .....he even developed new powers, as well as immunity to kryptonite, plus an intellect that was last seen during the Pre-Crisis days.
Now imagine what a year long stay at the Sun would do.
Now, add to this the power cosmic and all that it entails (for example matter manipulation).
And then add to that the abilities of a Sorcerer Supreme ....and not just any sorcerer Supreme but one who is far beyond human and can weave spells far faster than Dr. Strange ever could.
That combination is hard to beat.
Honestly speaking the only Superman that would be above him would probably have to be Superman Prime (who spent a millenium in the Sun, compared to one year for this one).
All other Supermen (including Superman 1million and Pre-Crisis Superman) would arguably be below this Superman creation of 'zachrivard,' and the only Superman that would be assured of being able to defeat him would be Superman Prime (again, if a brief dip in the sun could do what it did to All Star Superman, imagine what a millenia long slumber would .....especially when you consider that even BEFORE Prime went into the sun he was said to already be beyond all power known before).
zachrivard's Superman would be tough to beat if he was using all his powers at once (enhanced Superman abilities, coupled with augmented super-sorcery and all that comes with it ....eg the crimson bands of Cyttorak and access to the Vishanti, with the power cosmic affixed to this).
Hard to beat.
Last edited by spetznaz on Feb 13th, 2006 at 01:32 AM
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So Superman has near unlimited solar absoprtion which is added onto his power cosmic. Was the moving the moon thing a plot device feat becuase im sure all the JL are generally around the 100 tonnes level
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The whole '100 ton scale rating' thing is a Marvel scale.
Superman and co. are DC (obviously you know that).
For some reason there is a tendency by some to rank DC characters using Marvel ratings .....which is probably why another poster thought that Marvel's QuickSilver could hang with DC's Flash.
Not even comparable.
Same explanation must be applicable to the (same) poster, when he said that Colossus was STRONGER than Superman.
Goodness, Colossus is not even NEAR Superman's strength (and feat) levels.
Not even close ....it is akin to comparing the lifting ability of a Goliath beetle with that of a Saturn rocket!
Using Marvel scale ratings for DC characters (especially the top-tier) leads to many problems. To be honest with you even Aquaman has done feats (like the whole lifting a city block thing) that in Marvel would be considered quite high, yet in the JLA Aquaman's strength pales in comparison to MM's,WW's and Supes.
There are very few Marvel characters that could transition effortlessly to the DC powerhouse league ....for example the Hulk could (although he would still be too one-dimensional), and the Silver Surfer definitely would fit in (actually SS could easily join the JLA).
Just remember that most of the top-tier DC guys cannot be ranked in a 100 ton scale.
Even a 100+ scale (because the 'plus' aspect of it is simply too great).
Last edited by spetznaz on Feb 13th, 2006 at 02:37 AM
superman moving 1/3 of the moon isn't really a good test of strength. he was flying; the force of his actual strength is a small part of the force generated, the rest being the thrust from his flight.
and that's true for WW and MM too.
that being said, "what if" superman clears the gauntlet. when superman was given the power cosmic in that classic crossover, he was MORE powerful than tyrant (the comic states that "the kryptonian" is second only to galactus on the corporeal power scale.
then add on to that a sundipping.
then imagine doctor strange with super speed/strength/intellect and his own inherent durability ADDED onto strange's famous shields.
this being would only lose to the likes of TOP level abstracts, and even then the what if superman has a good shot.
I find it funny that people like Ghost Rider, Professor X, and Kuan-Yin Xorn aren't in this gauntlet. Also, Colossus could beat Superman if he tricked Supes into flying outside the ozone. Colossus in metallic form doesn't need air, Superman does.
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Last edited by Marcus4600 on Feb 13th, 2006 at 05:34 AM
Provided that Galactus won't just take the power cosmic back from him, that Superman could feasibly defeat Galactus, and likely not strain too much at it.
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Wha, huh? Lemme guess, DC has a lot of continuity conundrums. I've seen versions where he can't live without oxygen, and those where he can. Ugh. I hate it when that happens.
If he beats onslaught (which he probably will not), he loses to thanos.
Adding up zeros still sums to zero. Superman's base powers and the herald powers are zeros. Strange's powers are arguably higher, but looking over the respect thread, it seems to me all of the doc's best feats are from decades ago. More recently, he's been 1-shotted by wm thor and a weak thanos clone (that warlock defeated).
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When will the DC fanboys learn that no version of Superman could ever take Galactus, or Tyrant for that matter? Galactus is simply on a different level. "Sun Dipped" Superman could have the heralds version of the power cosmic, be as powerful as Strange's mentor in the mystic arts, sit in the sun for a million years and it wouldn't make any difference......Galactus would simply vaporize him the way I step on a cockroach.
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