Ulic has done two things with a lightsaber that makes him impressive. Defeat Mandalore, stalemate Exar Kun.
We don't know how long his fight with Exar Kun lasted but it sure as hell wasn't long, neither one was able to gain an advantage, but Exar Kun wasn't a lightsaber god at this time like he would become later on. Ulic stalemated a weaker Exar Kun then the god Exar becomes later.
Ulic for the rest fought nobody's people with guns swords and axes... Most of the time with help. How does that really put him above Revan, who did defeat Malak in a fight, perhaps he used the force perhaps he used is lightsaber most likely both.
He did know force lightning, we already had a debate about this in another thread, it couldn't have been a ship and a blaster Faunus? Does a blaster look like lightning from the sky now? Level 3 lightning in the game on the other hand does. So if we have something that looks like the attack that was desrcibed and it couldn't have been a ship then logically it would have been exactly what is said. Lightning. By logical assumptions we can also be very sure he knew force drain and techniques like that. Still you can ignore the latest technique.
the point is Ulic is seen as great because he stalemated a relatively weak Exar in lightsaber combat, compared to the Exar that he would become later. An Exar that was beaten by Vodo, not one that tooled with Vodo.
Looks like I'm debating alongside Janus and Faunus for the first time in a long time(means I support Ulic). Lord Darkstar made a big argument for Ulic that I have always felt is a great argument, so I'll post it for you to see it. At least read through it. If it doesn't change your mind on who would win this fight, please take pieces from the quote and tell us why they are wrong.
He(Ulic) was born on the planet of Alderaan, his mother was a respected jedi master. However, he did not go in for jedi training until he was nearly 20. However, before that he applied himself in many physical and mental challenges, always learning more quickly than anyone else did and becoming the best at whatever he did, with no effort.
After becoming an apprentice to Jedi Master Vodo Siosk-Baas, Ulic, along with two other apprentices were sent to the planet of Onderon, to try and tame the dark side there. When on Onderon, they found a planet on the brink of war. The beastriders (people that could control animals) rushed the palace and captured the princess, Ulic and the other two padawans fought their way to the beastriders enclave and discovered that the Onderonians were in-fact the instigators of the conflict. However the dark side was too strong, so Ulic studied from a sith holocron, intent on learning the ways of the sith so that he could infiltrate them and destroy them from the inside. However, like all others who learned the ways of the dark side, Ulic fell to its power. While on Iziz (the capital city of Onderon), Ulic killed the king, who was in-fact possessed by the spirit of Freedon Nadd. When Nadd’s spirit emerged, he could sense Ulic’s power and declared that Ulic would be one of the greatest sith that the galaxy had ever seen. Then Ulic was given a sith amulet by Aleema Keto (the same sort of amulet that Exar Kun wore, it increased his power by a large amount), he then studied the dark side of the force under Aleema (who was a powerful darksider and had all the knowledge that Freedon Nadd possessed, his holocron, scrolls etc). However, Mandalore, ruler of the Mandalorians refused to bow down to Ulic and Aleema, Ulic went and defeated Mandalore, after this Mandalore pledged himself, and his troops to Ulic.
Ulic got so strong that Exar Kun was able to sense his presence across the galaxy. Exar tracked Ulic down; knowing that Ulic was the only person strong enough to defeat him. A furious duel occurred, with neither opponent gaining an advantage; he duelled Exar Kun to a standstill, when the sith amulets that both of them wore activated and the spirit of Marka Ragnos appeared. He declared Exar to be the master and Ulic to be his apprentice. Marka then said that the two of them together would bring about the return of the golden age of the sith.
However, Ulic became arrogant and decided to attack Coruscant before Exar decided it was time. Ulic was winning the battle when a subordinate betrayed him. After being captured by the Republic, Ulic was put on trial before the senate, however Ulic was defiant and told them that they would all die, these are his words: “You are puppets of tradition pretending to be important. The coming Golden Age has no place for you. Your Republic is an empty self-indulgent diversion... signifying nothing. The lost glory of the Sith will turn all of your supposed accomplishments to dust.” His confidence was rewarded as Exar soon came and freed him, while Exar duelled with his old master; Ulic proceeded to slaughter the senate.
After being freed by Exar, the two sith lords decided to go the jedi world of Ossus. The two sith went to Ossus undetected and stole ancient and powerful artefacts, scrolls and holocrons from the jedi, and the jedi were unaware of it happening. Very impressive since there were thousands of jedi knights and masters on the world. However, Exar blew up the sun of that world, alerting the jedi to the sith lords presence. Ulic and Exar got seperated, and Ulic was cornered by Cay Qel-Droma (his brother) and Nomi Sunrider, after a furious duel, Ulic killed his brother. After killing his brother, Nomi Sunrider removed his connection to the force, but she could only do that because Ulic was distracted, weakened and shaken by the fact that he killed his brother. After this, Ulic fled and went into exile for the next twenty years. However, he was to resurface on the galactic stage.
Even though he had lost his connection to the force, Nomi Sunrider’s daughter, Vima, sought Ulic out to train her, even though her mother was the most powerful jedi in the order and could train her or could get anyone else to train her, she chose Ulic. The two of them crafted new lightsabers, which is very impressive since Ulic was able to create a lightsaber without using the force. Since the jedi use the force to guide the crystals into alignment with each other, this is an impressive feat. After a while, Ulic agreed and started to train her, however, he was tracked down again by Nomi Sunrider and another jedi, a Cathar named Sylvar. Sylvar was a powerful jedi knight and had trained with Exar when he was still a jedi, she actually managed to wound Exar while they were training, that is how he got the three scars across his face (oh and Exar and Sylvar were the same age, it was not a knight beating up on a padawan). Later she fought against Exar and Ulic in the war, so she was powerful and had loads of experience (imagine someone like Juhani, but twice as strong and you get Sylvar). She had also continued to train during the 20 years Ulic was in exile. She came to hunt Ulic down and kill him, drawing her lightsaber, she tried to kill him, yet even without the force (which is what the jedi use to control and guide their weapon), Ulic was able to defeat a very powerful, experienced jedi master. After disarming her, Ulic turned to talk to Nomi, it was then that he was shot in the back by the pilot that brought Sylvar and Nomi to see him. Even though he had no connection to the force, he still disappeared, becoming one with it. Also, of great interest is what Nomi Sunrider said when she saw him disappear into the force, she said that only jedi masters could do that, meaning the Ulic had become a master before he died.
Four thousand years after his death, his spirit encountered Anakin Skywalker, who was on his quest to destroy the Dark Reaper, Ulic taught Anakin much, as well as warning him to follow the light. This is very impressive since spirits get weaker the longer they are around, and Ulic’s spirit was able to stay around for over 4000 years. So Ulic had incredible power, nearly equal to that of the great Exar Kun.
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Actually Janus, he wasn't. Vodo knocks him out pretty fast
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After that Exar draws a second lightsaber and immediately attacks again, he broke Vodo his staff. But Vodo shows no sign of beaten outmatched, just overpowered by the attack. Its like an X-wing taking out the Death Star, in no way is it more powerful, it just had a lucky attack. Vodo was still the master.
Edit: Glentract, that post about Ulic isn't entirely correct.
Exar once went to Osus undetected proclaimed himself a knight got a Sith holocron and killed Odan Urr, Ulic was not present.
Exar also didn't sense Ulic his power all the way from the other side of the galaxy, he followed Nadd his spirit who contacted Aleema (who was near Ulic) at the time.
That's ridiculous. Along that same logic I could say that because Obi-wan can't befeat Dooku that Obi-wan can't defeat Anakin. Just because Exar didn't defeat Vodo doesn't mean that he couldn't have defeated Revan at that point.
TPM Anakin had precognition. It's a trait that all Jedi have. Revan's may be slightly above average, but it's not an end all factor.
That's just an in-game level of force lightning, not the same technique that Sidious used. It's not really a force storm, that was just the game description for it.
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No tihs argument is actually quite Valid, its assumed Ulic is more powerful then Revan primarily because he stalemated Exar. Exar at this time however has done nothing with a lightsaber that makes him out to be the god he later on becomes. He was beaten by Vodo.
Echani Pre-cog is often described wrong, the pre-cog is supposed to allow people to predict the tide of wars if they just know their enemy well enough. What it does is predict the enemy's his movements basde on the way he fights. Echani study the style and use that to defeat there enemy's, thats what Revan does. Seeing as he got the greatest pre-cog of the Echani at that time possibly ever we can safely say it would give him a pretty big advantage in any fight, as he would know the enemy's movements pretty fast and could predict what they are going to depending on what he's going to do. He could plan an entire fight blow to blow, thats a bit more helpfull then just simple Jedi Pre-cog.
Completely agree with this, no evidence Revan could conjure up a force storm.
Zephiel is far worse. Emperor Revan posted a lot in times when we just assumed the most logical things about Revan considering what we knew. And allowed those assumptions in a debate.
What Fishy said, you misunderstand the extent of Echani precognition. Echani precognition helps you predict the attacks of your enemies before they even make it. That was partly why Revan is such a devastating duelist. Regular Jedi precognition helps you move faster sure, but very different from Echani precognition.
Last edited by zephiel7 on Mar 4th, 2006 at 06:58 PM
You just answered two small points, there are plenty others. There is still Faunus' point, "now, this wasn't Kun at his peak, but he'd already eradicated the spirit of Freedon Nadd, and blown apart temple walls and Sadow's Sith Wyrm."
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And he didn't do anything of that with a lightsaber, and he did both with an amulet. How would that make him a great lightsaber wielder? It was afterall a lightsaber fight between him and Ulic.
And of course I didn't answer all in it, most of it is true. But most of it doesn't make Ulic > Revan.
Edit: Actually most of it isn't true..
Ulic didn't slaughter the Senate, Exar let them live he didn't care about them.
Ulic also wasn't trained by Vodo.. He was trained by Arca. Ulic also never defeated Sylvar, they dueled he stayed alive and then lowered his lightsaber and said he wouldn't fight her anymore.
That post is filled with crap really, Darkstar probably wrote it without having read the comics, or maybe it was a long time since he read it. In any case I would advise you to not use that post anymore, seeing as a lot of it is wrong.
Mar 4th, 2006 06:03 PM
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