yes but m8, regardless he didnt want to be cast into the void, if he was so all powerful he wouldnt of been...yet his spirit was...dont remember how he ended up there, did mediv caste him out...and i still stand by my decision that the lich king is still unkown...blizzard can do wat ever he wants with him they like
A quick lesson in the AZEROTH history, hmmm.
once apon a time... forget that lets jump to the facts.
Sargares got defeated by Aegwyn BUT because of him wishing it, Reason? Because of him wanting to get access to Medivh the Last Guardin and possessed him with eas.
Kil'jaeden in the mean time convinced Guldan in Draenor to rally the orcs behind him and go conquer the world that soon would be open before them. Sargares then began romming the Astral plan to tell his two subcoordinat that the time was at hand (Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde was both terrified of the power he realised in the astral plan)
Sargares used his powers in medivh to open a Portal to Azeroth through which the Orcs stormed through.
Then something happen that Sargares had not intended he had sent Gul'dan to fetch his avatar body, but Gul'dan was torn to schrets by demons on top of that Medivh was killed by knadgar I believe his name was so actually for Medivh casting him out wrong, Medivh was believed killed until W3, where he was resurrected.
So for Sargares ending in the Void was a result of a plan gone bad. And again Blizzard couldn't allowe Sargares to live since his powers would easily have defeated the entire Azeroth something the Lich King cannot do over night.
I know he is powerfull but comparing his level of power in the RPG then sorry Lich King gets kicked by Archimonde. And Archimonde is nothing I repeat Nothing to Sargares.
yes yes i know all that, ive read blizzard story several times but regardless, sergerus for all his power couldnt stop his plan messing...if he makes mistakes then he can be defeaten, trusting Guldan was one of them...i mean if he can even come back which i doubt but if he does he may trust someone else to do a job for him and the lich king just kills that person and segerus is thrown back into limbo again
the Lich king has never actually been defeaten..has he even been denied much? almost everything the lich king set out to do has been accomplished, like the combination of Arthas and himself, nothing stopped them..he destroyed the elves, rasied a great dragon as a wyrm, perhaps he would never be as powerful as sergerus but Archimonde id say is quite possible at least....besides Warcraft isnt all about strength, many times stronger characters end up getting defeaten in one way or another by lesser ones, and i belive the lich King has the goal of taking control or destroying the legion for what they did probably more like control...his controlling powers are quite powerful
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Dude, stop. you're not gonna win this arguement. He's not gonna be as powerful as Archie for awhile. He may reach the level eventually, but he's not near it yet. Archie got beat because he was a moron and he got greedy, plain and simple. That, and Ner-zhul may have double crossed him by purposely not telling him about the trap.......
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exactley, Nerzuel is far more cunning and intelligent..its obvious, the burning legion are arrogent hot heads..knowledge is also power, not just brute strength and nerzuel seems to know whats going on most of the time
whats Kil'jaedon done thats too clever...hes not too hot headed but he uses people too much and ends up empty handed, i dont see why he doesnt simply attack Lich King head on by himself if hes so powerful...
Burning thought is correct. Whatever Kil'Jaeden did was for mostly for naught.
Before the orcs came to Azeroth he approached Ner'Zhul (most powerful shaman of the orcs at the time) and attempted to rouse the orcs to kill the Draenei at the time, infusing them with Mannoroth's blood and cursing them. Ner'Zhul realises that he's been duped, rebels, and is defeated but Kil'Jaeden spares him and confines him to the Frozen Throne.
First mistake, letting your only nemesis with real potential live. What the bloody hell was he thinking?
Gul'Dan was Ner'Zhul's apprentice at the time, he founded the sect of the warlocks. Through Sargeras-infested Medivh he manages to create the Dark Portal and let the Fel Orcs run through, big-ass war, humans win. Oh dear. Fast forward in time again, second war, humans still win. Double oh dear. Fast forward in time again, Thrall manages to rouses his people, founds the new Horde, sails to Kalimdor. Hellscream, demon-infested at the time, manages to break the hold that the demonic curse has on them ("Crap!" says Kil'Jaeden) and slays a greater demon.
Kil'Jaeden: ""
On the other hand, Ner'Zhul, establishing himself as the Lich King, somehow manages to reach past his prison that Kil'Jaeden himself crafted ("Oh, damn!" says Kil'Jaeden.), creates his own agents and his own Scourge that wreaks massive havoc and results in Plaguelands everywhere. His puppets manage to summon Archimonde, his partner in crime. Burning Legion tries and fails. Archimonde dies.
Yay. Let's look at their top underlings so far prior to Lich King merging.
Kil'Jaeden: Illidan, Kael, Lady Vashj.
Ner'Zhul: Arthas, Kel'Thuzad, plus a few advanced Dreadlords.
Anyways, Kil'Jaeden sends Illidan and his cronies to make sure that he destroys the Frozen Throne, something he should have done years and years ago. ("Oh, never mind," Kil'Jaeden says. "It'll be destroyed anyways.")
Right? Wrong.
Oops, his plan seem to have backfired. Ner'Zhul merges with Arthas and becomes the most powerful entity Azeroth as known. Kil'Jaeden? He's left in Outland with Illidan to rage over.
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The point is made, and agreed with. Kil'jaeden screwed up royally. The first Orc war was lost because of internal strife among the orcs, which is something Kil'jaeden should have dealt with. Gul'dan was controlling things behind the scenes, but he tried to extract information from Medivh's mind before his first death, only he got caught in the psychic backlash.
Fast forward a few months. BlackHand the destroyer, commander of the orcs, was killed by his strongest general, Orgrim Doomhammer. Doomhammer found Garona the half-orc, Gul'dan's agent, and found out about the shadow council.
Gul'dan's forces were wiped out, and Gul'dan pledged loyalty to Doomhammer and promised to create new sorcerers and an undead army. The first efforts were the ogre-magi, and later, the Death Knights.
Gul'dan found Sargeras's tomb, but was killed by the demons within. The orcs lost the 2nd war, however, Doomhammer attempted a parley. They were ambushed by the sons of Blackhand, and forced to fight them and the Lordaeron peacemakers, among them, Sir Anduin Lothar.
Fast forward another generation. Thrall escapes from Durnholde keep. He finds Doomhammer and becomes the new warchief and moves everyone to Kalimdor. While this is going on, Mannoroth and Archie come to town. Mannoroth spikes a fountain of life with his blood. Hellscream drinks said blood. The Fel Orcs start wrecking the surrounding area. Thrall and a slightly deranged Hellscream, manage to kill off Mannoroth. Boom, no more blood curse. However, some of the fel orcs survived the upheavel of Draenor, and became servants of Kil-jaeden.
Ner'zhul, as the lich king, looks around and finds a powerful, but stupid, paladin, known as Arthas Menethil. Arthas, being the schmuck that he is, is drawn to Northrend, where he claims the runesword, Frostmourne. He kills off a few of the Dread Lords, who are only now starting to realize they have been duped. Tichondrius was onto the Lich King's plan, but he was killed by Illidan before he could relay the info. At this point, Archie is now marching on Yggdrasil, and the night elves, orcs and humans, have teamed up to try and stop him. The wisps, druids, dryads and other sorcerers, set the trap. Archie, in his greed for the power of the well of eternity, doesn't notice the power build up. He is subsequently nuked.
Aftermath: Things are looking up for the orcs. But the night elves and humans are kinda screwed. The night elves have lost most of their power and the forests got ****ed up by the burning legion. The humans on the other hand, are attempting to stop King Arthas's rampage throughout Lordaeron. While Maiev Shadowsong attempts to rejail Illidan, Sylvanas leads a rebellion against Arthas, who is experiencing a serious power drop for reasons that will soon be related.
Maiev finds Illidan has acquired 'The eye of Sargeras', and is doing something that may destroy the world. She goes and finds Illidan's brother, Furion and the two stop Illidan and smash the eye. This turns out to be a serious ****up. Illidan had cut a deal with Kil'jaeden to kill the Lich King in exchange for power and more magic for his addiction. But, now Illidan has to run like hell because he didn't get the job done. Maiev follows him into outland.
The High elves, now called Blood elves, are not dealing with the fall of Silvermoon very well. Without magic, they are starting to crack and turn into junkies without a fix. Kael'thas Sunstrider, Prince of the blood elves, cuts a deal with Vashj of the naga to get out of a nasty situation after racist humans deprive him of needed forces. Said humans find out about the naga, and promptly jail his ass. Vashj shows up to bust him out, and offers him a place serving Illidan, who can supply him with magic. (And possibly the opportunity to be her boyfriend. Hot elf/naga action! Yeah, it creeps me out too.) So they go to Outland and bust Illidan out from Maiev's grasp. Unfortunately, Kil'jaeden shows up, and he is royally pissed. Illidan begs for his life and shows him the forces he has gotten. Kil decides to give him another shot. So, they head off to Northrend, to reluctantly fight the scourge yet again.
Meanwhile, Arthas finally shows up in the north. (Amazing how all these events seem to coincide, you'd almost think there was a script ) He gets met by a giant beetle called Anub'arak. Anub (pronounced 'A newb, ) takes him to the lich king, after meeting a few rejects from an H.P. Lovecraft story. Ner'Zhul tells him that Icecrown is under attack, and he needs his go to guy (aka Arthas), to clean house. So he restores all of Arthas's power (you had to fight the last couple of stages with falling levels, which was kind of gay.....) and tells him to go beat some ass with Anub. They proceed to demolish the blood elf and naga bases. This leads to the all important and very cool, showdown. Illidan stormrage, bitchboy for Kil'jaeden, vs. Arthas Menethil, the Lich King's host body/hitman. Naturally, Arthas whups Illidan and ascends to the top. At the top, he returns the sword to the throne, breaking the ice. He puts on the armor and merges with the Lich King.
And that's where this story ends, and WoW begins. How did I do? Btw, Arthas is supposed to be so powerful, that only a level 90 40-man raid will have a chance of beating him. But, that still doesn't mean Kil'jaeden won't be worse. Of course, it is possible that Arthas is more powerful, but nothing so far indicates this.
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yes i belive altho it is a lot to say, the Lich King may equel or be greater than Kiljaeden, he has been allowed to do alot of things due to kiljaedens and his henchmens foolishness. The King is going to be blatently more powerful than anyhing in WoW so far, that includes C'thun who altho isnt as strong as he used to be, is still one of the old gods and once defeated a Titan, more powerufl than Ragnaros the fire lord, his lacky Kelthuzard who is quite powerful...plus the dragons which are powerful...this would certainly mean Lichie is going to be quite incredible and he aint even near going in the game i bet, well prob be pornin all over the place before he comes out
Host Host Gul'dan was more powerful then his master, he is said to have been the greatest none eredar warlock to have existed. And don't forget that the humans lost because of Gul'dan being send to the undersea tombs by Sargares to fetch his avatar body, he toke a pretty good part of the army with him thus denying doomhammer the chance of destroying the alliance.
I think you need a little lesson in kil'jaeden powers and abilities and most importantly his IQ.
Kil'Jaeden was descripted as being the strongest of the three Eredar Velen, Archimonde and himself. Point for Kil'Jaeden.
Kil'jaeden is actually the host behind the creation of the legion its vast size and potential is because of Kil'jaedens abilities to round up races all across the universe.
Yes his plan backfired, and this is not because Kil'Jaeden is stupid on the contrary, by allowing people that makes mistakes and giving them a second chance the chances of there loyalty to grow is created.
Now you mentioned the underlings shall we all remember warcraft III where Illidan and Arthas fought to a stand still, and then suddenly in Warcraft III FT Illidan is defeated (confused), even though he was given a powerbost by Kil'jaeden. (Even more confused)
And however, Kil'jaeden's full powers lie not within the boundaries of physical and magical ability, but in the mind. His unrivaled cunning placed him first in position in the ranks of the Burning Legion, and so aptly gave him the title of the Deceiver. He managed the corruption of the orcs with very little magical expenditure, a plan executed almost entirely by manipulation.
And don't forget what he enslaved the dreadlords you know the beings that corrupted Sargares.
Maybe he isn't stupid, but that was a stupid decision of his. Loyalty, my ass...Ner'Zhul outright declared that Kil'Jaeden betrayed his people and when he was told of their plan to drink Mannoroth's blood, he yelled that he would never betray his people to a life of slavery. He expected to be killed at the time, but was he? No. He was still powerful at the time and Kil'Jaeden should have outright killed him and forgot about it, but no...he tried to make a powerful orc with a strong will his puppet.
Play with fire, you'll get burned.
My point; Ner'Zhul's influence was clearly much more powerful than Kil'Jaeden's.
Yeah, he may have been cunning but like an a-hole he obsessively sought the downfall of Velen, once his friend. So a whirlwind of events happen and the orcs are infested and unleashed against the Draenei.
"Well, that's about done it," he says smugly, dusting his hands off.
Wrong. Velen still lives. Where's his inherent cunning now?
It wasn't the Dreadlords that pushed Sargeras to insanity, it was everything. You give them far too much credit. And they weren't enslaved by Kil'Jaeden. Nathrezim, Eredar, Pitlords, you name it. Even before this "There can never be good" crap started getting to his head he'd already locked them up in the Twisting Nether. Sargeras goes insane, frees them and creates the Burning Legion.
That is another story personally I agree with you he should have killed him. But this doesn't speak for Kil'Jaeden being dumb ore being a bad planer. Kil'Jaeden hasn't been burned yet but to envolve in battles is kind of below him.
No it wasn't I was refering to the hole scene in the end, the fight should have been far more interesting and spetacular instead of a couple of sword clash and Illidan flying but and opening his chest for a direct assault stupid move, but after all Illidan was always arrogant.
His cunning is still there don't forget that Velen escaped thanks to that other race (cannot remember his name) Not because of Velen being more cunning than Kil'Jaeden
Oh yes it was, today there is only confirmed on race that was trapped in the twisted neither and that was the Dreadlords.
From the WOW
"While his confusion and misery deepened, Sargeras was forced to contend with another group intent on disrupting the Titans' order: the Nathrezim. This dark race of vampiric demons (also known as Dreadlords) conquered a number of populated worlds by possessing their inhabitants and turning them to the shadow. The nefarious, scheming Dreadlords turned whole nations against one another by manipulating them into unthinking hatred and mistrust. Sargeras defeated the Nathrezim easily, but their corruption affected him deeply."
and they dorve him over the fine little line, and yes they was enslaved by Kil'Jaeden again
Kil'jaeden's first move was to enslave the vampiric Dreadlords under his terrible power. The Dreadlords served as his personal agents throughout the universe, and they took pleasure in locating primitive races for their master to corrupt and bring into the fold. First amongst the dreadlords was Tichondrius the Darkener. Tichondrius served Kil'jaeden as the perfect soldier and agreed to bring Sargeras' burning will to all the dark corners of the universe.
Yes Sargares creates the Burning Legion BUT The burning Legion sheer size and vast potential for destruction can only be attributed to Kil'jaeden having done his job well. Not a bad planer
Dont you guys think that it may be kinda hard to compare Kiljaeden(who we dont know much about) and the new Lich King(who we know almost nothing about). But dont underestimate Arthas, Nerzhul was once a Shaman and then became a Necromancer, while Arthas was a Paladin who became a Deathknight. That would give him an impressive amount of powers.
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Feb 23rd, 2007 03:49 AM
"
Yeah, it creeps me out too.) So they go to Outland and bust Illidan out from Maiev's grasp. Unfortunately, Kil'jaeden shows up, and he is royally pissed. Illidan begs for his life and shows him the forces he has gotten. Kil decides to give him another shot. So, they head off to Northrend, to reluctantly fight the scourge yet again.
) He gets met by a giant beetle called Anub'arak. Anub (pronounced 'A newb, 
) takes him to the lich king, after meeting a few rejects from an H.P. Lovecraft story. Ner'Zhul tells him that Icecrown is under attack, and he needs his go to guy (aka Arthas), to clean house. So he restores all of Arthas's power (you had to fight the last couple of stages with falling levels, which was kind of gay.....) and tells him to go beat some ass with Anub. They proceed to demolish the blood elf and naga bases. This leads to the all important and very cool, showdown. Illidan stormrage, bitchboy for Kil'jaeden, vs. Arthas Menethil, the Lich King's host body/hitman. Naturally, Arthas whups Illidan and ascends to the top. At the top, he returns the sword to the throne, breaking the ice. He puts on the armor and merges with the Lich King. 
