No objection to a well-written Surfer winning, but have you actually seen the scan you just referenced there? If it didn't even knock out the street levelers, or visibly hurt anyone on panel, how is it that it supposedly "almost killed" Thor? He was angry and overstated the blast...happens probably twice an issue in comics. Believe what you actually see on-panel, not what it said as subjective opinion.
Thor states that such a blast (which Surfer only intended as a warning blast) could kill them (Thor and the others who Surfer sought to deter).
how many times does Thor indulge in such chickheartedness, seems somewhat unlike Thor to me?
anyway, it was just to bring balance to the claims that Surfer says Thor is more powerful than him (this being Surfer at a time when he was depowered by Galactus, nevermind the fact that Surfer has been upgraded several times since then).
magic <<< Power Cosmic, in general, from what I've seen. characters that tower over Odin (in fact, against whom Odin would fail to even register) are humbled by Galactus who solely utilises the Power Cosmic.
I've yet to see Thor do the kind of energy manipulation, the sophistication and scale, that Surfer does, I dispute the idea that Thor even comes remotely close to Surfer in matter/energy manipulation.
Thor has some magic tricks, but nothing to match or even compare with Surfer. Surfer's evolved a PLANET, controlled minds across a planet and given a whole world's population emotional/spiritual "joy"... mentally.
also, when has Thor ever phased matter or phased himself through matter? Surfer does that stuff without effort, Surfer works on the actual primal forces that manifest themselves in the movement and formation of matter, Thor's magic doesn't have anything like the finesse, from what I've seen (can you provide scans otherwise?)
"allowing" someone to do something is, in the strictest sense, giving permission, it is not enabling or assisting nor in any other way giving aid to the person. Surfer did it with +his+ power, of +his+ volition, it was still his feat. the only thing you might say is that Surfer, wisely, would not want to tread on Odin's toes by doing such a thing as synthesising Odinforce without Odin's blessing.
regarding healing/rejuvination. Surfer EVOLVED a planet, stands to reason he can heal himself. moreover SURFER healed Thor!
Surfer also pulled himself together, INSTANTLY, after being smashed to pieces, several times, during his fight with UniLord.
Classic Surfer > Thor in healing. Current Surfer is >>>>> Classic Surfer.
Surfer survived everything T&A threw at him, he even survived The Crunch Energies long enough for Galactus to be impressed.
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Last edited by janus77 on May 13th, 2008 at 10:42 PM
thor ftw.....when they first met......SS stated that the power from thors hammer was mightier than his power cosmic.....i take it surfer has had power ups since then.......has thor ?
Yes, but Silver Surfer cannot replicate Galactus' feats, nor can Thor replicate Odin's feats. The Odinforce does not represent the strongest force within magic anyways.
And if I'm not mistaken, the whole "emotional spiritual joy" thing happened in Silver Surfer: Requiem. If I'm mistaken, I'd like to see a scan.
Thor was fused with the concrete once and "phased" out of it using Mjolnir.
Odin created Mjolnir, which NO ONE else has ever been able to lift unless permitted. The Surfer wouldn't be able to lift Mjolnir without permission (unless I'm wrong) so I doubt he would be able to replicate the Odinforce without permission.
And he has NOT done anything with the "synthesised" Odinforce besides reviving BRB and altering him, which he did together with Odin. And once again I call attention to the fact that BRB's hammer was used by another space pirate in that very comic.
Ok? Thor can use mjolnir to do similar things. Evolving a planet won't do much in their fight.
Are you kidding me? You're STILL throwing that fight around? T&A disposed of him with TWO attacks. He survived an energy blast and a physical attack. The writer of Annihilation also noted that they weren't equal to Galactus, but were only able to face him thanks to tech from Thanos.
Even without the interview, the only "impressive" thing the Surfer did there was channel the crunch energies. Unfortunately that makes absolutely no difference in this fight, they won't be fighting in the Kyln ruins.
No objections to this. The Surfer couldn't heal Air Walker though.
Seems to me that Surfer's greatest feats comes from ONE single fight. We have a name for those kinds of fights, don't we? Where a character fights someone who's far above him and still prevails
I'm also assuming we're using the classic Surfer and classic Thor.
Either way, Thor defeated Durok. Durok whom the Surfer couldn't even scratch, he had to BFR him to the future. And Thor didn't even use Mjolnir.
I do feel that classic Surfer should've defeated classic Thor (and arguably he did but then paused in his attack, this allowing Thor to recover).
For the sake of fun (and out of respect for Thor fans, a generally rational bunch), I've never argued for Surfer winning (or that he should've won) against WM Thor (especially if there is any truth to WMT being 10x more powerful).
As for current Surfer against WM Thor...that's a toughie, mostly because I'm not sure current Surfer really is so much more powerful (what Galactus says is somewhat ambiguous), or he just had his inhibitions removed. He did withstand major blows from (near?-) Galactus level beings, but then, we don't know how WM Thor might've done against T & A (oh I can hear the comments from the peanut gallery now).
For the moment, I'm tempted to say current Surfer wins, but I will chalk this up to bias, if nothing else.
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Just like I think they would've stomped WM Thor, current Surfer, the Keeper and King Thor together. Surfer beat them thanks to his impressive ability to channel the energies that BIRTHED them. He released the crunch energies on them and killed them.
I would give regular Thor 5/10 against the Surfer, and WM Thor maybe 6/10.
Thor has only been in WM like twice? I can't remember any other instances. Has he ever shown any kind of intelligent use of his more exotic powers in WM?
616 Thor has only been WM once, which was induced my a mental disease or something. After that he couldn't induce the madness anymore, because he had become too human or something. He mentioned it during the Onslaught Saga.
Either way, he has used little more than hammer throwing and lightning when "mad"
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When it comes to matter and enrgy manipualtion well the surfer is indeed above thor and he has the feats to prove it. That should not evn be an argument. Thor does not have anything evn close to evolving an entire planet by billions of years or channeling the crunch or surfers unilord feat to name a few.
Now to the whole odinforce thing lifting mjolnir and copying its enrgy signature are two very different things. Odins put an enchantment on the object mjolnir preventing anyone other dan thor from lifting it. SS probably cant lift it. Howver manipulating the enrgy from it is a totally different thing. Surfer would certainly not need permission to synthesize its enrgy just like he would not need permission to absorb enrgy balsts from thor which is another form of enrgy manipulation. A person does not need permission to manipulate enrgy. Obviously to avoid trouble he certainly needed odin to assent to him doing it.
And now to the Tand A fight, it really did show a huge durability increase in the surfer. Lets us not forget that he was oneshotted by odin who is far below T and A so for him to survive evn one intended to kill attack from near galctus level beings is impressive whichever way you look at it.
Overall surfer just has that bit more than thor in evry department be it healing, matter manip, enrgy manip or whatever else you would like to add.
And using Durok as a benchmark is ABC logic. I could use the hulk in the same way and we would have a whole different story
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Wasn't he alluding seriously to descending into WM in one of his battles against Hulk? Either way, you're right in that Thor hasn't shown versatility to any kind of extent when in WM, even though the sample size arguably isn't very large. Due to that reason alone, I expect SS to take some kind of majority.
Ok on Maestro, but I'm not thinking of Blood and Thunder in regards to Adam(though I know he was there too). I'm referring to Adam's first appearance when he kidnapped Sif and Thor had to track them down.
I'm almost positive that it was specifically stated that he went WM, but then again that might just been an impression I got and then latched on to as well.
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May 13th, 2008 04:08 PM
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