Colonial Latin America

go to mexico and climb the pyramid of the sun or the moon,, i did take the tour..

better yet open a book search for the toltec, omec ppl that preceded the aztecs and mayans who later took on their belief system.. 😛

also the spanish records as well of the aztec legends stated that they believed that cortez was the mangod because of his beard and the cross on his armor as well of the wooden cross used to trick the azrecs..
this was written down and sent back to spain stating cortez plan..
hmm...you might want to brush up on your history bub..

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
go to mexico and climb the pyramid of the sun or the moon,, i did take the tour..

better yet open a book search for the toltec, omec ppl that preceded the aztecs and mayans who later took on their belief system.. 😛

also the spanish records as well of the aztec legends stated that they believed that cortez was the mangod because of his beard and the cross on his armor as well of the wooden cross used to trick the azrecs..
this was written down and sent back to spain stating cortez plan..
hmm...you might want to brush up on your history bub..

AHHA!

There is no evidence whatsoever that the Aztecs believed Cortes was Quetzalcoatl which does not come from a Spanish source. There is no evidence before the Spanish invasion which suggests Quetzalcoatl would return as some white skinned man-god.

So, can you provide the evidence that Quetzalcoatl shares a story similar to Jesus'? Can you provide evidence that this story pre-dates Jesus' birth. What rationale do you provide to explain such a striking similarity?

If the Aztec story preceeded Christ's birth then surely Jesus is the god they spoke of. Therefore it is more likely that the God Jesus' teachings would be far more fuller and correct than the teachings of the Aztecs?

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i dont know why you try to seem like you somehow no more then others especially when it comes to someone elses culture.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
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i dont know why you try to seem like you somehow no more then others especially when it comes to someone elses culture.

"A story raped in myth and legend" surely that gives it away?

Perhaps because it is "your" culture you fail to apply appropriate historical criticism to claims and thus fail to distinguish between myth and reality...

Oh, that and you think a youtube video constitutes as evidence.

i just figured you might like to know a little bit of what you are talking about.. i didnt think you would read an entire encylopedia of the aztec and the meso americans...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_gx5219/is_2000/ai_n19133782

http://en.fairmormon.org/Quetzalcoatl_and_Jesus_Christ

"much of what we know about Tenochtitlán and Aztec customs comes from accounts of Spanish writers who witnessed the last days of the Aztec empire." taking that into account combined with "The Spanish destroyed as many Aztec documents and images as they could, believing the Aztec religion to be not just pagan but devilish"

So is the information the Spanish provided really reliable?

Your fairwiki article is an attempt to separate Jesus and Quzy based on the snake thing...hmmmmmm.

Still failed to provide any evidence.

what evidence do i need to provide for you, his legends preceded the aztec & mayans and went back to the toltecs , olmecs and the incas. to believe that the spaniards and christianity had any influence to quetzacoatle is absurd... its like saying jesus influenced the roman/greek myth of hercules

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
what evidence do i need to provide for you, his legends preceded the aztec & mayans and went back to the toltecs , olmecs and the incas. to believe that the spaniards and christianity had any influence to quetzacoatle is absurd... its like saying jesus influenced the roman/greek myth of hercules

Where are the records? Most of the existing records concerning Quezecoatal are from Spanish sources or other western accounts.

It totally isn't like saying that because our contact with the Greek mythologies has not come via a conquering Christian force who wiped your backward culture of the face of the planet.

by your own admission you said "most" records, clearly their are other records of queztacoatle also your statement is not even remotely true, the spaniard did not keep records of queztacoatle and his myths.
the reason we know of queztacoatle is because of tomb lids with stories carved on them. also his glyps appearing in a lot of walls he was represented all over the aztec city with his many legends. the pyramid of the feathered serpent itself has his stories depicted on it.

the funny thing is you actually think that the spaniard influenced his myths in all the past civilizations.. i find that to be very arrogant and ignorant to believe that to be remotely possible. why dont you look it up yourself you have internet find and study everything you can..

tell you what the native indians did tell some of the scholar monks who wanted to hear their legends and who wrote them down, but their was still buried codex with the same legends found well after the conquistadors were told of his legends.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/System/8870/memory/nquetzalcoatl.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/System/8870/memory/meso.html&usg=__dQp_78tmtmryQaQeTGJsfxVCabM=&h=300&w=212&sz=19&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=RrN7RTptFZMTCM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=82&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlegends%2Bof%2Bthe%2Btoltecs%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/images/quetz_cortez1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/order_of_the_quetzalcoatl_ritual.htm&usg=__XSZ10ihYz97APkNpdaYzYLRaNIM=&h=216&w=309&sz=26&hl=en&start=10&um=1&tbnid=RW6YpAoiXkKIqM:&tbnh=82&tbnw=117&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlegends%2Bof%2Bthe%2Btoltecs%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_codices

Don't be such an idiot.

The Spanish did not influence the myths but they have perverted and changed what they were to suit themselves- do you really think they told the truth when they were telling the people back in Spain about these horrific backward savages?

Now please, try and spell his name properly: Quetzalcoatl a quick google will bring it up.

What you are linking too are not academic sources- what about the books you have read written by credible historians of the Aztec period?

It has become clear that you are some sort of anti-semitic bigoted "nationalist" who looks back at Aztec civilisation as some sort of golden age in your heritage that you long to get back to- no wonder you abhor the idea of Western or even the extremely unlikely Jewish impact on the culture and how we understand it today.

i am not anti semitic what i abhor is the impact that organized religion has had to cultures all over the world. nice try though on your assumption that i would like an aztec civilization and i am a nationalist even though you dont even know what nation i am from.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i am not anti semitic what i abhor is the impact that organized religion has had to cultures all over the world. nice try though on your assumption that i would like an aztec civilization and i am a nationalist even though you dont even know what nation i am from.

Antijewiststan?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i am not anti semitic what i abhor is the impact that organized religion has had to cultures all over the world. nice try though on your assumption that i would like an aztec civilization and i am a nationalist even though you dont even know what nation i am from.

Wow...we waited five days for some evidence and what...we get that?

What a let down, you have failed to back up your position. Your credibility is lost.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
"A story raped in myth and legend" surely that gives it away?

Perhaps because it is "your" culture you fail to apply appropriate historical criticism to claims and thus fail to distinguish between myth and reality...

Oh, that and you think a youtube video constitutes as evidence.

LOL..."Raped" in myth and legend. Nice spelling mistake, there. Anyways, I guess there could be some similarities between the Christian God and this Quartzkeychaintaco guy, but they would only be purely accidental and coincidences. There's just no way there's any connection.

An interesting thing I watched a bit of on YouTube noted that the thing about there being 12 Apostles, Mary being a virgin, etc had already been repeated for thousands of years in many preceding and long-dead religions due to astrological reasons. I.E. there are 12 characters in the Zodiac, the Virgin Mary is actually Virgo the Virgin, there are astronomical or astrological factors associated on the date on which Christ was born, etc. So there's no reason to think that a strangely Christlike deity and religion could happen to exist on the other side of the world with absolutely no contact with actual Christendom, particularly considering that some of the more advanced (in comparison with the less sophisticated natives) cultures among the various Amerindian peoples had amazing skills and methods of astronomy.

As for how this thread came to have anything to do with Jews whatsoever, I have absolutely no idea in the slightest.

I found this thread by chance, when I asked the almighty god google something...

anyway before talking any more nonsense please watch this

Google: zeitgeistmovie

"ZEITGEIST: THE MOVIE"
[ RELEASED 6/25/07 ]

Not everything in there is accurate, but pretty much everything that matters is true

Christianity is not special, many religions that share common grounds with Christianity existed, and actually where before Christ >_>

For those that believe blindly this post won't change anything, but for those that feel something is wrong and yet can't see it... well this will guide you in the right pact 🙂

PS: Through History there has never been a most despicable religion as Christianity, the horrible acts done in the name of Christ (or better say the "True God"😉 and the excessive cover ups make it the worse of all religions, and it annoys me how people think Islam is wrong just because a few believers take extreme measurements, Christianity set the bar too high and I don't think it can be surpassed.

Shall I make examples?

The Inquisition
Countless innocents burn just because of being suspected of being different (pagans, "witches", "werewolves", "mages", shamans, heresy in general)
The "Holy" Crusades (that continue even today)

PS: one of you pointed out the sacrifices the Aztecs did... well is better to sacrifice yourself in order to make your god happy than to sacrifice others... at least in this way you die happy thinking your life meant something very important, not like "others" that though sins could only be washed with the dead and purification of said person.

Also is not like the sacrifices did it unwillingly, or is not like they killed thousands of people just to probe that their god was better.

Originally posted by Chaoswind
I found this thread by chance, when I asked the almighty god google something...

anyway before talking any more nonsense please watch this

Google: zeitgeistmovie

"ZEITGEIST: THE MOVIE"
[ RELEASED 6/25/07 ]

Not everything in there is accurate, but pretty much everything that matters is true

Christianity is not special, many religions that share common grounds with Christianity existed, and actually where before Christ >_>

For those that believe blindly this post won't change anything, but for those that feel something is wrong and yet can't see it... well this will guide you in the right pact 🙂

Zeitgeist tends to only convince to extremely naive and highly impressionable people.

Originally posted by Chaoswind
PS: Through History there has never been a most despicable religion as Christianity, the horrible acts done in the name of Christ (or better say the "True God"😉 and the excessive cover ups make it the worse of all religions, and it annoys me how people think Islam is wrong just because a few believers take extreme measurements, Christianity set the bar too high and I don't think it can be surpassed.

Shall I make examples?

The Inquisition
Countless innocents burn just because of being suspected of being different (pagans, "witches", "werewolves", "mages", shamans, heresy in general)
The "Holy" Crusades (that continue even today)

Because, you know, ALL Christians are like that in modern times. So that totally applies in a meaningful way.

Have fun living in your fantasy world.

Huh, because all the people that did all those horrible things are dead we should just drop it like it never happened?

Sorry, but I am not a supporter of happy go crappy theology.

Originally posted by Chaoswind
Huh, because all the people that did all those horrible things are dead we should just drop it like it never happened?

I never said anything like that. It's still very important to remember the context of events and not throw around buzzwords at random. Not only does it make you seem like a dick (not to mention fairly dim) but it's intellectually dishonest. Modern Christianity is not Christianity from Medieval times and treating them under the heading of "Christianity" is a fairly blatant attempt to mislead your audience.

Originally posted by Chaoswind
Sorry, but I am not a supporter of happy go crappy theology.

Yes you are. You church just happens to be that inane movie.

Haha

The fact that you believe I support that movie and the people behind it, makes you... oh well lets drop it there.

anyway, I don't support it, I just think is a good way to make people think for a little and search if their claims are true... to with after a little while you will see they exaggerate, but most of their claims have valid points (The best lies are the Half Truths).

Also you seem to know with one is my religion, I would like to ask you with one it is, since you seem so sure of yourself.

Modern Christianity may not be the same as Middle ages Christianity, but is pretty damn close, still closed to other beliefs labeling anything that is too different as Heresy, always thinking that others must be saved because they are wrong, what the heck is so special about Christianity... what makes them believe everyone else is wrong and they are the only ones that are right? (the same applies to most religions), wth maybe the right one is Islam, or the Mormons... or Scientology... so care to elaborate why Christians are right and everyone else is wrong?

THAT is what I dislike

Also what would you do, if after you die you are allowed to go to heaven because before anything else, you were a good person, but there is a problem, Christianity was wrong and the right religion was Buddhism, Buddha the true god tells you that you can go to heaven, but first you must acknowledge him as the true god or he can't save you.

Would you do it? or would you rather go to hell?