Gemworld being an other dimensional world was never in doubt to begin with, that much was stated on panel many times and not just in who's who bios or the Atlas or the history of DCU. Although it wasn't stated outright to be a standalone dimension in its initial appearnce (merely as another world/planet), i recall as far back as Amyethyst v1 #2 confirming that it exists in a dimension/plane of existence separate from Earth. And from that point on, it's been stated as such many times.
The editor clarifies that dimensions outside the multiverse such as Bgztl (Phantom Girl's dimension) and the Gemworld are unaffected by the crisis as a result of being outside the multiverse. Here's the whole page, if you want to read it:
Yeah, but it's a bit surprising for you to make such a comment. Since Solar hasn't shown anywhere near that level of power consistently. You are saying that a guy who constantly had problems with spider aliens, seemed to have big problems with X-O, was owned by some sentient crystals, admitted that he couldn't create a single planet, lost control because an energy of a single star was too much for him, was getting owned by some space fleet (at half power as i recall) etc... etc... can solo someone who's million times more powerful than multiversal beings, a guy who destroyed and recreated the multiverse and beyond with a snap of fingers, and a guy who defeated a being more powerful than LT...?
...That's why i asked if you're serious.
Last edited by operator616 on May 21st, 2014 at 06:35 PM
You really think that Solar's consistent trouble with the spider aliens and X-O (among plenty of others things which i can reference, but those two are examples on what level he consistently operates) equates to Doom staggering Beyonder in one instance or something? Beyonder is an established multiversal+ power, while Solar is a herald-level character (on average) maybe a bit more, closer to someone like Thor or Silver Surfer rather than to someone like Odin, (forget the Beyonder) who sometimes goes way beyond his norm to achieve some multiversal feat by chance (although he has one deliberate). Id like to hear more about this "all out" Solar though, what exactly do you have in mind, im curious?
This is WF Mxy. Read the OP.
So..."Measly Celestial" is the best that you can come up with? Really? Scathan was established to be above Protege, who was above LT, that's all we know. And as such, he'll stomp Solar without a doubt.
Last edited by operator616 on May 21st, 2014 at 07:01 PM
Right, the defense force is incoming with silly pictures.
Anyone who believes team 2 is invulnerable to Solar's power is really cherry picking high showings. Maybe we should see how Beyonder did against Phoenix...
We go by average showings, not just high showings, you know that. So if there's anyone who's cherry picking, it's you who's saying that Solar solos...
Tell me something: What average would you impose on Pre-retcon Beyonder? WF Mxy? Scathan?
When you answer that, we'll proceed and see just how far does Solar compare.
Also, from what i remember Phoenix was empowered by the Beyonder in that UXM tie-in. Ill have to recheck but im pretty sure. Not that it matters, at all.
She was and he demanded his power back. She fed it back to him + all the emotions she experienced inside the M'krann Crystal. Nothing of consequence happened to Beyonder.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
No, but it shows Beyonder isn't in the realm of invulnerable when dealing with characters of this nature. Especially when Solar eclipses Doom in every way. And his power is far beyond the likes of Rachix who gave Beyonder more than he could handle.
Hopefully everyone read the OP and realized this was Solar at his most powerful. Not him as he was inexperienced when he defeated spider aliens and easily defeated XO once he started trying. The guy destroyed and recreated every being in Valiant, you really think using him as inexperienced form would prove a point?
Another thing, but Solar stated he was holding back until he fought Mothergod. And as soon as he stopped holding back, he effortlessly downed her. So yeah, let's pretend he was only Silver Surfer level when he effortlessly owns a multiversal level being.
Very true. But Mxy doesn't have alternate forms and WF was just an extension of his appearances. It'd be like stating that Avengers 1 Hulk is an alternate form of the Hulk who fought say Gardner.
Either we assume Scathan is some alternate supergod, or we assume he's just a supped up Celestial. A Celestial who should still be around the same armor build as the others, and... and who should still have the Hyperspace weakness which judging by Solar's "cosmic awareness" should be something no more than two thoughts from his mind. Along with Solar's ability to manipulate everything in his universe, he can produce hyperspace, and he should produce it. Just because Scathan can cheapshot a high level being, that doesn't mean everything we know about Celestials is thrown out the window.
Not to mention other variables. Such as Solar absorbing Beyonder's power like Doom was able to. If such a thing happens, well, we'd have an amped up Solar to say the least already operating on such a high level. And it shouldn't be too difficult judging by Galactus' power withstanding Beyonder's full assault and then Galactus' planet eating technology taking his full power.
Every weakness of the other team is at the helm of Solar. What happens when he fights at his best level when he isn't holding back? Not a question to you mind you since you think he's only Surfer level, but in general.
Solar did preform a megaversal feat(absorbing the whole of Valiant and Image) at around half power... Which is quite a humdinger when you think about it.
Very true, but in this scenario it's Solar operating at his highest peak, and his peak had no such low showings you're imposing on him. Beyonder did, Mxy did unless we're under the assumption his power drastically changes, and Scathan is an unknown though there's ways to place him.
Each one of them has high showings yes, but the "low showings" I'm bringing up don't go against such. Unless we're pretending Beyonder has amazing durability feats and resistance to draining, even though both of his defeats at the end of the arc had to do with his power lowering and not immune to siphoning.
Really, it doesn't need answering as it's just a refusal to look at them under an even eye. Though my previous post should give indications on them.
Reread it then, it doesn't matter. And it only goes back into Solar using his absorption power to turn Beyonder's power against him, if he doesn't outright steal all of it. Though I'll give my thoughts on how a battle would go between them shortly.
^ Im curious, did you read the whole series? If so, go ahead and tell me exactly where you put him on average...and see whether my claim or yours is off. I can fully substantiate my claim though. We'll get to that.
Just a note though, That "megaversal" feat is from the same arc where Void along with that Solar were the ones who were threatening those two multiverses (seems legit). And Supreme hurt Eclipse, same Eclipse who gave Solar a fight in that same time period. Just something to think about regarding Solar's average performance. Something which is fully ignored in this thread.
If we're using Beyonder at his lowest showings, and Solar at his peak, then yes, Beyonder can be harmed, we saw that a multiversal power (Puma empwoered by the powers of the multiverse) was able to kill him. But i think you're overestimating the power of Solar. By (issue #49) he outright says that he can't create a single planet:
Just so that you're aware of his general power. That's his average. As opposed to Beyonder who's average is multiversal.
"inexperienced", you do realize that spider aliens were a continuous threat throughout the series, correct? Here's Solar's other half (who's exactly at half power) having problems with the spider aliens in issue #35:
I could just as easily pull scans of another instance where he's constantly having problems with the spider aliens.
And when he initially confronted them in issue #5 (iirc) he attributed his reasons not to inexperience but rather because he ran out of energy. That's always been the case. So not sure how inexperience has any relevance whatsoever here.
That's really great that he stated he was holding back. Unity happened around issues #13 and #14 of the Solar series, and believe me, he's had a plenty of low showings ever since.
As for X-O, he outright states in issue #17, that X-O's power rivals his own:
Saying that XO is so below Solar is not true, considering how their fights faired, and since he always sees X-O as a peer, and since he always goes for X-O to help in dire situations, etc.. etc..
Yes, "every being in Valiant". Name one multiversal, or universal, or even galaxy level being in Valiant apart from Solar.
.......What?
Mothergod is a multiversal being? I mean, seriously? Id like to hear the explanation to that....It makes complete sense though, considering Mothergod spent a thousand years making a weapon to destroy the universe....right?
Mxy has alternate versions, so that point is moot.
Hmm...remind when Solar used this "cosmic awareness" of his to exploit a weakness, because i honestly don't recall it...must be missing something.
Solar's ability to manipulate everything in the universe....? I don't even know what to respond to that. Because that's just utterly false.
As for Scathan: So basically, you have nothing to suggest he's anywhere below LT, something which was shown on panel? Cheapshot or not, it doesn't matter, he literally defeated a being more powerful than LT and then restrained him in that muzzle. But if you're implying that any random celestial can cheapshot Protege FTW...
Yes, that seems plausible based on his one showing in Deathmate....however, based on his 100 or so average appearances, id say the more likely scenario is that Solar is gonna get oneshotted into oblivion.
Last edited by operator616 on May 21st, 2014 at 08:17 PM
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