On 3 other sites I am the Alan guy (getting tagged any time there is a question). Only just realised i rarely debate him here (not many tbreads to do it on). Shouldn't have assumed. And no it doesnt matter.
Jokes aside, he's A Superman guy. Just like I'm AN Aquaman guy, but there are at least one or two people who know the character in some ways better than I would.
Yeah, being known as THE GUY for a particular character doesn't necessarily mean you know the most about them. So like, yeah, I'm a Spidey expert compared to most. But he's too popular not to have others who know as much or more. Back in the day, Darkcrawler was a good example - dude had mountains of scans that humbled my recollection of Spidey feats - but he's not been active for years. If there was ever anyone I actually knew the most about, it was slightly off-beat guys like Death's Head II or the Authority. But even they have other superfans (KM ironically among them, at least for Minion).
Anyway, on topic, this is a really, really good fight. I don't think there's a wrong answer, tbh. I'm starting to relent on the Superman hype, and was never really a hater. But Alan was always THE big gun who was a staple on DC's pre-FP Earth, and they gave him the feats to back it up, even if he didn't accumulate the same volume of feats Kal did. His raw power was off the charts, despite not being as versatile as some GLs or Superman at his best.
@ beatboks, it's cool, we know you're the Silver Age guy 'round these parts. And Alan certainly counts, even though he made the transition to the modern age better than most. I'm a big fan of Alan myself, but my knowledge of him is sporadic at best prior to CoIE, and not encyclopedic in any era.
I know at least during the late Pre Crisis era, almost right around the time of the COIE, Alan was throwing down with "Nazi" Captain Marvel (Big RED cheese indeed)
And was actually holding his own. All Star Squadron, was it? With a younger Earth 2 Superman who looked just like Byrne Supes?
Of course, that's neither here nor there canon wise. Still pretty neat.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Hawkman may have beaten up Adam, but it's the power in his mace that let him do it.
Essentially, Alan beat Adam by proxy (It could have been a construct that did it, Carter Hall addes NOTHING except the grunt work.)
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Yeah A.S.S 36 he fights CM briefly after.Supes was stunned. Throughout the fight the spear of destiny controlled cap (because the nazis had somehow separated Cap and Billy and kept billy in Germany) was trying to draw Alan into axis held teritory so that he would fall under the spears power. Batma. Figured it out and had HM stop alan IIRC.
This was set around april/may 1942 (we know issue 22 or 23 was 9th feb 1942 because Johnny quick was after at the sinking of the normandy). That was around the time in the actual Golden Age that Superman's feats were lifting to be more in line with Modern Superman. Cap was shown in that to be pretty equal to Supes. So while Cap and Supes were considerably more powerful than the level of Action 1 we really cant say they were full powered. I know that as late as A.S.S.16 or 17 Superman was still only leaping where as actually flying by theUltranvs America saga (21 -26 and annual 2)
JOKE asside Prre reboot wasnt vulnerable. Post sentinel era it was stated the weakness was duento the green flame (good magic that separated itself from the starheart the Guardians formed that was the meteor formed into a lamp and eventually Alan's lantern) was energy of life and couldnt harm life. Wood was the make up of trees so linked to life. Whennhe started tapping the starheart that changed. There are stories posted this change that still showed the wood weekness ( like when exploding boxes temporarily took alan down so Mordru could send the rest of the JSA to relms he'd created so he could fight alan solo). Real reason writers not researching and knowing of the change in story reason John's red condit that this was due to Alan psychologically believing it was still weak while he was in a week and position, tired etc.
We dont have to look far to know that the writer not knowing the character is the fault. The same hack had Alan need a neck brace even though he'd supoosedly been composed of pure energy only for decades (and his form was dependant onnhis will/ thinking- the reason he sometimes appearedyoung andnother times old. Literally how he felt at that moment)
He was dodging Akk Akk fire on his way into the British aisle.
He was pretty even with Cap throughout the fight in that story. plus Cap wasn't trying to take Alan Down
Given that even with Cap obviously holding back it STILL took everything Alan had just to protect himself, and we can see from here that we can't rate Cap as we normally might.
You have to remember Roy Thomas was painstakingly accurate to the history of characters in that book. He wrote stories that explained all the little inconsistencies and tied them together and made sure every character was portrayed at the same level at the same time and changed at the right time. He even incorporated panel shots showing those adventures to place them in a time line and explain character abscences (like Superman Fighting a giant power stone wielding Lex Luthor)
I think it's a safe bett that pre COIE Alan isn't beating any version of Supes. He may have had the advantage of versatility what with matter manip, size changing, intangibility, as well as the usual constructs, force fields and heavy lifting of GL's
Wonder if Cap's distance from Earth S was a factor? Earth 2 is farther off from S then Earth 1, isn't it?
And Cap was "weakened" to about Supermans level in Earth 1 during their first real throwdown (Weakened meaning he could be hurt and get tired, while in Earth S he's 100% invulnerable and tireless..)
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
As valid a reason as any I suppose. The Upgrades in Superman's power level in print seemed to be around the time Whiz comics first hit with Cap in them, and upgraded seemingly to match him as he was portrayed. I always figured National was just keeping their boy at the peek, so whatever Cap could do So could Clark. That they had started out with Supes being the strongest most durable etc and that was where they expected him to sit.
I can't however think of any IN STORY reason why Cap would be less powerful off earth S.
Superman is typically favored over Alan Scott pre-FP. It gets complex when you bring in the Sentinel period--it's unclear how much more powerful (if more powerful at all) he was as Sentinel.
But Earth 2 Alan Scott, as keeper of the Green or whatnot, seems more powerful than Superman typically is. It would take a high-end Superman portrayal to match him. Once he knew his stuff, the Black Superman and PG both acted as if they and all other 'wonders' were several levels down from Alan. He was on a whole other level.
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May 4th, 2017 07:53 PM
