Even you stated on your Big N Respect Thread that he used Sever Force on Kreia.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
That just seems like an overcomplication to solve a contradiction that doesn’t exist.
Sion’s two quotes don’t conflict with one another at all, unless you specifically chose interpretations that conflict, which is illogical. Even if they did, I don’t see why the argument that two Sith who despise someone decided not to kill her for the banter (when Nihilus is audibly furious at learning he didn’t actually kill her), and not that the woman with a confirmed ability to make herself seem completely dead, you know, faked it.
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Not really. The script is just horribly vague about it and has Sion continuing to hit Kreia once he throws her on the ground. It doesn't even mention the scene where Kreia can't lift her saber hilt. Obviously Avellone changed/clarified it somewhere along the line after that, and this isn't a case where you can argue that author intent is better conveyed through the script and that the final product was the result of time or game engine constraints. They evidently decided to give Nihilus a more prominent role, with the "hunger for power" line being an obvious reference to him, and future sources corroborate with that idea by mentioning that Nihilus and Sion both conspired to take her down.
Moreover, the script still has Sion's line about Nihilus intending to kill her but not actually doing so. So there's no issue here. Not only that, but in this entire thread nobody has raised a sufficient counter about either that line or an explanation for why Nihilus wouldn't want to drain/kill her.
We see the effects of it only.
I ask you again to show me proof that Nihilus spared her from the initial Drain attack, rather than attacking the entire planet, scouring the wastes and then stumbling across a chance survival that he spared instead of finishing off?
Otherwise you're proposing an exceptional degree of Force Mastery on Nihilus' part (the ability to single out one among millions and keep them safe from a planet-wide attack) which just goes against what we know about Nihilus, which is that his control over his powers is limited at best.
It's dumb because you don't like it? lol
I've already explained to you that if you drain someone's Force connection, you also drain or "remove" someone's Force abilities. So you're trying to create a point of conflict where there's none.
As we can see, you continue to avoid most of my points and you still haven't managed to even respond to Sion explicitly charging Nihilus with the act, nor given me a reason as to why it would be Sever Force. I accept your concession.
Once again, there is no rationale for why Sion or Nihilus would want to spare her, and why Nihilus would opt to use some harmless Sever Force power instead of Drain. Both of them despised her, both of them were surprised and contemptuous/angry upon learning that she survived, and both of them had no need of her. Drain also happens to be Nihilus' shtick, and as KotORCG points out, the circle is ironically complete when Nihilus drains his own master. You don't get that when he decides to suddenly use some other power.
This "Sever Force" approach requires you to ignore sources because you don't like them, ignore that the Nihilus character is all about Drain, ignore that Nihilus tried to kill her, which Sever Force doesn't do, and ignore the intended poetic irony of this scene which is only achieved when Drain is used. There's no reason to believe that.
Last edited by SunRazer on Jan 17th, 2018 at 12:19 AM
Actually Kreia said that Nihilus brought the Killer Force to radicale heights or at its peak. That means he mastered it to perfection; his endless hunger has nothing to do with the mastery of the technique.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
It is Sever Force because you don't see drain on-screen.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Keep in mind both Sion and Nihilus only continue to live because of the Force. Sion especially "loves" (the dark side of) the Force and feels that being connected to it is an absolute essential thing. In his mind, it's more cruel to strip Kreia's Force connections and allow her to live on without it. They probably figured from that point on, she's no threat at all. Typical Sith overconfidence at its best.
And their intention was not to kill her, but to exile her: Why?
Well, we both agree that she couldn't use the Force anymore after she had her connections temporary stripped away. And she isn't a Wound in the Force either(so, she couldn't mask her presence)
Kreia couldn't just walk free throughout the Trayus Academy without being noticed by anyone. If their intention was to kill her: then, they'd have killed her back then if they saw her trying to escape Malachor V.
There is no way she could have left the planet if their intention was to end Traya's life.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
So an appeal to incredulity... doesn't answer any of my points. You can't decide sources are wrong just because you don't like the facts. And no, there's nothing wrong with them killing her right in the Core if they wanted to. There's no way to leave the planet if they intended to kill her? Wrong. She left the planet, yet Sion makes it clear that they intended to kill her.
And no, Kreia said Nihilus was approaching the height of [Drain]'s power. She suggests that the Ancient Sith were probably still better in that regard.
Last edited by SunRazer on Jan 17th, 2018 at 10:44 PM
Indeed. Doesn't change the point that Kreia didn't say what Nadd claimed she did about Nihilus. She pretty clearly suggests that there's limits to his Drain as well.
Kreia only knew Nihilus' power pre-Katarr. So the statement isn't a contradiction.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
And Kreia couldn't leave the planet if they intended to kill her. She'd have no means to escape. Only the exile is the viable option. Apparently you don't see the nonsense in them trying to kill her on Malachor V. You just keep repeating what Sion said to Nihilus on Ravager, though Nihilus wasn't the one who finished Kreia: It was Sion. There's no logical reason to fault Nihilus when Sion gave Kreia the final strike.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Jan 17th, 2018 at 11:08 PM
It is a contradiction because you were quoting Kreia, lol. So the limits of her knowledge doesn't matter. You were going off her quotes, I just corrected you on what she really said. Also, Kreia serves as the mouth of God at various points in the game, presumably including her DS monologue where she refers to Nihilus in the current. Though by all means she's certainly exaggerated his power in the past, so she could definitely be fallible. Look no further than her claiming that even a stray thought can lure him - no such thing happens, of course.
Sion's physical hits were no serious contribution. I've already told you that it's blatantly clear that Nihilus did the heavy work in negating Kreia's powers by draining them. Sion himself seems to recognise that and therefore attributes the "killing" to Nihilus. We also don't know if the draining persisted or not after Sion threw Kreia on the ground as we know she obviously hadn't died by then. At some point they mistakenly thought that she was dead and left. She escaped after that.
Not sure why you're lecturing me on logic given you've repeatedly shown in this thread that you can't grasp simple logic. You've spent most of this thread trying to overturn facts based on gut feelings and whether or not you like them. That's not how it works.
Last edited by SunRazer on Jan 17th, 2018 at 11:17 PM
Why you say Nihilus kills her off-scene? Simple: To suit your own argument based on a cut-content character line and a moronic source that also states the 'drain' happens on-screen. And we still see Kreia breathing and being alive pretty much.
Sion deals with her the last. Checked. Cut content is not about Nihilus killing her on Malachor V. Checked.
What Sion wants to say through "Difficult to kill." and "After all that's happened still you live." is that Kreia managed to survive without the touch of the Force. He was impressed of her ability to survive without it. When they exiled her: Sion was sure she'd not last long and die or take her life. These two lines emphasise her overall character. Kreia also says to Atton Rand that Jedi would be defenseless without the Force.
She also identifies as an exile to Meetra Surik because both were severed from the Force and were exiled from their respective orders.
If the creators ever intended Nihilus to use any Force power on Kreia to finish her off after Sion pummels her; they'd have shown it to us. They'd have shown it in the restored-cut-content if it was the case, for god's sake. That's all. You fail to see the context of the video-game.
A full stop and a question mark change the context of a sentence(referencing Harbinger Sion's 'still you live.' Line)
Full stops indicate the end of sentences that are not questions or exclamations
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Jan 18th, 2018 at 12:03 AM
Kill her off-screen? No, I said he drained her off-screen because that's what the facts say. Your reason for not taking the facts is because you can't accept the idea that Nihilus' Drain might not be an instakill, lmfao.
Checked? How about checking me out of this. I'm not interested in contending with question marks or incredulity. Come try again when you have actual facts to contribute to the discussion with.
You just said Nihilus finished her off-screen. If that were the case; we'd be seeing it in the cut-content or written in the script at least. It's you who thinks the drain happens off-screen: When in fact it happens on-screen per that moronic source. And do you realize that the Trayus Academy is full of Sith? She wouldn't be in any position to leave. She'd be slain by those douchebags the moment she tried her little attempt to escape.
And you tell me to use facts and logic? Show me that the script mentions Nihilus Force draining Kreia off-screen. If this isn't mentioned; then this is your personal assumption based on a cut-content character line that refers, most likely, at a current situation during the video-game.
If the cut-content didn't reveal the off-screen Force drain or any other power; then that means they never tried to kill her there on Malachor V.
Not even sources mention that they wanted to kill her: only that they stripped her off her power and exiled her.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Jan 18th, 2018 at 12:27 AM
*facepalm* What cut content? It's clearly by author's choice that we don't see Nihilus cutting her from the Force. We still see the effects of it with Kreia not being able to lift her saber and her own commentary that she was stripped from the Force. Add to that Nihilus' modus operandi of using Drain and the KotORCG confirming it, and you get my stance on the matter.
And no, if she can elude Nihilus and Sion she can obviously elude their underlings. lol
Jan 16th, 2018 06:55 PM
