To begin with, I am going to clarify the different stages of power for both Krayt and Cade Skywalker and dub them with appropriate titles, so that when listing feats we understand the proper context in which to assess them. Also, throughout the post I’ll be listing feats without a direct link to the source, because there will be an imgur album with all of the relevant scans at the bottom, to save space and effort.
For Krayt, we’ll be using:
A’Sharad Hett (his time as a Jedi, tusken warlord and bounty hunter)
Sith Apprentice (his time spent studying under Xoxaan’s holocron)
Post-Vong (after escaping from the Yuuzhan Vong)
Apocalypse (during the events of the eponymous novel)
Dying (during the events of Legacy)
Reborn Krayt (during the events of Legacy: War)
For Cade, we will be using:
Beginning of Legacy (BoL)
Jedi re-training (after being re-trained by the Jedi)
Sith training (after being trained by the Sith and experiencing the Embrace of Pain)
War or Prime (during the events of Legacy: War)
As we know, A’Sharad is Krayt before receiving any Sith training. He will be mentioned later but first, we’ll look at Krayt’s power growth since those days. He gained “a great deal of strength in the Force,” in part by training under Xoxaan’s holocron:
Krayt began his studying some years after RotS, but still well before ANH; he emerged from Korriban well after RotJ, on the eve of the Vong invasion, so he spent several decades studying under Xoxaan.
However, as Darth Talon explains “Xoxaan opened the Dragon’s eyes, but he could still not see the power within the darkness until he met the Yuuzhan Vong. And with the scales fallen from his eyes, Darth Krayt embraced the dark side.”
More pertinently, Krayt notes that “My existence was an endless state of pain,” due to both being subjected to the Embrace of Pain and Vong experiments. As a result of this ordeal “A’Sharad died on that Vong ship. Darth Krayt was born and returned to Korriban -- first as an apprentice to Xoxaan, ready to embrace the way of the Sith -- then as a master prepared to create a new order.”
Clearly, then, despite the considerable power increase he had from his initial Sith apprenticeship, Krayt received a more profound amplification from his ordeals under the Vong, in large part due to the Embrace of Pain. This, we will dub post-Vong Krayt.
Leading up to Apocalypse, Krayt’s most pertinent feat is that despite receiving comparable wounds to his Force essence to Luke Skywalker when fighting Abeloth in Beyond Shadows - meaning his spirit, the core of his power - he was able to recover from his wounds and walk away while Luke was still contemplating death. Now, even when you adjust for the fact Krayt feeds off of pain and clings to life, in contrast to a Jedi, we’re talking about Grandmaster Luke Skywalker here; recovering so well from an injury that debilitated Luke speaks volumes of Krayt’s raw power. Indeed, it was explicitly stated that they both had metaphysical holes in their chests, and neither were in any condition to fight each other. https://www.writeurl.com/text/o68nd...dc7f0kyxmug8zty
However, it does appear the wounds to their Force essences were permanent, so the next iteration of Krayt - “Dying” - is weaker than both his Apocalypse and Reborn counterparts.
Speaking of Dying Krayt, I have compiled a list of quotes fully testifying to his dreadful condition while harbouring the Vong coral seeds. For starters, Krayt says that “he should have died” after what the Vong did to him, and that he needed “long years of stasis” for his body to heal (this applies to Apocalypse, as well). Krayt was immensely weakened after a short fight where he butchered four Imperial Knights. Andeddu’s holocron states his body is “failing” and he is being “consumed.” Krayt compared his vong parasites to Darth Bane’s orbalisks, which similarly burrowed into Bane’s insides and fed off of him, however in this case, Krayt receives nothing in return.
After that I have presented a juxtaposition between a body-shot of Krayt normally, and when his Vong growths are overtaking him - quite the difference. After his first battle with Cade Skywalker he is again incredibly weakened, and Wyyrlok notes the growths are “threatening to take over his body.” Krayt notes that his control of the seeds is waning, and soon he will be a “mindless thing.” Wyyrlok muses that nothing in his Sith Lore can help, nor a Jedi healer and again that he is being “consumed.” Karness Murr notes that Krayt has an “infected and failing husk you call a body.”
Most telling of all, Cade Skywalker states that Krayt is in such poor health that the normal “red lines” he sees inside of someone before healing them are far too numerous and “jumbled up” for him to heal Krayt. And after he learns Shatterpoint, he talks about how he can see how “sick and twisted up” his insides are, how he can see how much their duel is costing him, how the parasites want to take him over and that they are “gnawing” and “clawing” at his guts. https://imgur.com/a/H07dT
So, essentially, Krayt is having his insides torn apart, his body consumed from the inside, and the Vong parasites are constantly trying to override his willpower over his own body, so that they can use him as a host to warp into a mindless beast. Even short skirmishes exhaust Krayt, and as noted several times, his condition has only progressively been getting worse, especially during Legacy where he refused to stay in stasis in order to keep up appearances, and engaged in costly battles. In other words, he was dying.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Now, for Reborn Krayt. Thanks to his mastery of Dark Healing combined with Shatterpoint, aka Dark Transfer, he was able to fully heal his body and rid himself of the parasites that were constantly killing him. That alone would warrant a rather drastic increase in power, since not only would the permanent damage to his body be remedied, but he would no longer have to moderate the parasites.
But additionally, because Krayt experienced death and overcame it, he returned “better than before,” “so much more now than he was then,” “with his power multiplied.” This kind of profound increase in power is typical for a Sith after overcoming seemingly insurmountable odds, and I’d say overcoming death ranks pretty highly.
To be clear, Krayt did not merely brush with death, or flatline briefly only to make a miraculous recovery: no, he actually died, and as a spirit burrowed back into his body and brought himself back to life through his newfound healing powers. Quote:
And as a general note, since becoming a Sith, Krayt has “killed thousands of opponents” and “perfected his combat techniques over many decades.”
I would say based on the above points, either Apocalypse or Reborn Krayt are his peak, but the two should be fairly comparable. In Apocalypse Krayt had his full Force essence, but was suffering immensely from his Vong coral seeds, whereas Reborn Krayt had an injured Force essence but had a newfound mastery of the Force, was ridded of the parasites and had healed his body to peak condition.
Now for Cade. Seven years before the series kicks off, Cade is just a padawan who is “almost ready” for the Jedi Knight trials. He then spends seven years as a bounty hunter, taking death sticks. As the Jedi put it, “He has raw power, but his finer skills have atrophied. He doesn’t have the focus he used to have.” This is him still after two weeks of re-training.
When the Sith come across Cade, it’s noted again that despite his raw power, “it could be trained, focused, honed…” “You have great raw power but it needs focus. [...] I can show you how to use it. Are you ready to learn?” Krayt wants to “harness” Cade’s power so that he can heal him. Three weeks of intense training pass. We then see Cade inside the Embrace of Pain, which as we just established, provides a large amplification to one’s existing powers.
Finally, after another 30+ issues of Legacy, Cade has a “newfound mastery of the Force” as a result of his many battles, and Talon notices a pronounced difference in his power. https://imgur.com/a/gLU6I
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
As for telekinesis, the best example of Krayt’s power here is by gauging him compared to BoL Cade, who was able to throw the best part of a ruined starship with such force that it carried Darth Talon well out of sight, easily hundreds of yards away. https://imgur.com/a/SuK4d
As detailed above, this is Cade at the beginning of the series, by the time of War his power would be exponentially greater. Despite that, only Krayt has landed telekinetic blows on Cade in both of their fights, and Krayt has also ragdolled Darth Nihl, who was an even match for Cade during the time he performed the above feat. Nihl also choked Cade into unconsciousness, however it’s possible Cade was caught off-guard.
There are two additional important lines of scaling which apply to Dying Krayt, which are comparisons to Saarai and Darth Maladi. Starting with Saarai, she dominated Darth Stryfe with telekinesis in a manner rarely seen in Star Wars, grabbing a hold of his heart and then contorting his body into unnatural positions, and looking pretty causal about it all the while.
This is important because as you also see in the album, Stryfe performs admirably against Cade Skywaker post-Sith training, matching his telekinesis briefly. https://imgur.com/a/ATuel
What does this mean for Krayt? Well, we can deduce that Saarai is at least equal to, but perhaps more powerful, than Cade as a telekinetic at this time. And yet, Saarai’s power is only considered “nascent” by her father, Wyyrlok, because she is still nowhere near ready to assume the Wyyrlok mantle, meaning her father is doubtless far beyond her.
And yet, even Dying Krayt, at his weakest, has skills in telekinesis that “far outstrips” any Sith of his era, which would include not only Darth Wyyrlok III himself, but also Saarai, Stryfe and by proxy Cade Skywalker even after his Sith training. https://imgur.com/a/1FhJf
Meaning:
Reborn Krayt >> Dying Krayt >> Wyyrlok III >> Saarai >>> Stryfe ~ post-Sith Cade >> BoL Cade
BoL Cade who casually throws starfighters into the distant horizon. Based on the above analysis, Krayt’s power is many, many times that of BoL Cade. Even people Krayt is far superior to can ragdoll the likes of Stryfe, who proved a challenge for post-Sith Cade. Meaning, it’s safe to say Krayt could probably throw multiple starfighters worth of weight out of sight and it wouldn’t be very hard for him.
However, I’d like to note that this is only in regards to Wyyrlok mid-way through the series: he himself undergoes a transformation nearer the end of the series which will be explained more later.
As a final note, it’s also inferrable that even Dying Krayt is vastly more powerful than Darth Maladi, due to the fact even Cade Skywalker has destroyed her with telepathy - Maladi’s own expertise - and Cade also destroyed Darth Talon with telekinesis, who should be a stronger combatant than Maladi via her position as Krayt’s hand. Krayt also ragdolled Darth Nihl, who is Krayt’s main enforcer and superior to Talon.
This is important as Maladi is “extremely skilled” at Sith Alchemy, which should place her in the upper echelons of power as only the most powerful Sith Lords have a talent for alchemy.
Alchemy, additionally, is described as being interchangeable and directly intertwined with Sith Sorcery by at least three different sources, meaning Maladi is likely one of the most powerful sorcerers in all of history as well. https://imgur.com/a/5K4pf
Also worth touching on quickly is the potency of Krayt’s Force lightning. Post-Vong Krayt was able to kill a few Vong that we saw on-screen, but we can infer that because Krayt had to fight his way to a starship, he must have killed several other Vong on his way out, perhaps many more. In any case, Krayt was far from his prime here and in terrible physical shape, as it was noted he needed decades of time in stasis to heal from permanent damage to his body. Vong are superhumanly durable and boast natural resistances to Force powers thanks to being disconnected from the Force.
Additionally, dying Krayt at one of his weakest points was able to kill about a dozen or more superhuman rakghouls, which even individually or in small groups were causing headaches to the rest of the Legacy cast. https://imgur.com/a/7sGPy
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
It’s also important to touch on Krayt’s cosmic Force feats, which relate to the realms of foresight, senses and telepathy, the powers of the mind and the future. I bring this up because as it is noted in Force and Destiny, as seems obvious, the Cosmic Force is “more difficult” to access than the Living Force, and “it is also from here that perhaps the most powerful Force abilities come,” and “comprehending the deeper mysteries of the galaxy and possessing the gift of foresight is a route to power savored only by a few.” https://imgur.com/a/g8UGe
So with that said, Krayt has:
Such skill in foresight that it left Wyyrlok I in “awe” of his power
Such skill in foresight that he saw a vision of his One Sith empire a century before it would come to fruition
Sensed Cade Skywalker from across the galaxy and pinpointed that he was using Dark Healing to bring someone back from the dead
Sent ripples through the Force so that every single being touched by the dark side in the galaxy would feel his power and know his return, even including Cade Skywalker and Antares Draco who had merely brushed with the dark side.
Maintains a telepathic link/bond to what is said to be “millions” of Sith Troopers, who act according to Krayt’s will - we know this is the case because they all go insane as soon as Krayt dies, which could only be possible if they shared some kind of connection to him. This is analogous to how Sidious held together the empire’s military circa RotJ with his will, and upon his death is collapsed into chaos immediately
For Krayt’s lightsaber skill, we’ll start with his fight against Obi-Wan Kenobi vastly before his prime. This was Obi-Wan after RotS, but while he had “not allowed his reflexes to become dull.” It’s important to note that Hett had a marginal advantage due to being more used to fighting on the sand, however Kenobi also notes that Hett’s youth and his own “considerable skills with his own weapons” are also what makes Hett such a tough opponent. Hett lands a kick on Obi-Wan, nearly killed him by throwing a lightsaber at him after and then smashed Obi-Wan in the jaw. Obi-Wan lands his own kick, and it’s then noted that he was not defending with “ease.” Obi-Wan ends the fight by Force pushing Hett and cutting his arm off simultaneously. https://www.writeurl.com/text/wp8l8...91j8bhw2fy9lcdz
Even accounting for the environmental factors, Hett performed extremely well here. Kenobi is the most defence-oriented duelist in possibly all of Star Wars, and one of the best duelists ever, so for Hett to land two blows on him and nearly kill him with a saber throw has to be impressive, sand be damned. I would look to how Kenobi handled Dooku’s assault as a potent reminder of just how elite his mastery of Soresu is:
Granted Hett is clearly a sub-Kenobi and sub-Dooku duelist, but he should at least compare favourably to the likes of Grievous and Ventress whom Kenobi has also had issues with in the past, but has proven a clear superior to. More to the point, the disparity between A’Sharad Hett and Reborn Krayt is so gargantuan I can scarcely put it into words.
A’Sharad should be seriously inferior to Sith Apprentice Krayt, who had spent decades studying the dark side under Xoxaan. Krayt would receive a greater yet amplification from the Vong torture he endured, which is where “A’sharad died and Darth Krayt was born.” As an illustration of this increase, we can simply look at how A’Sharad lost rapidly to three Vong warriors, whereas Krayt had to kill the Vong in droves in order to procure a starship and escape. Most notably, Krayt perfected his combat techniques over many decades, and by his own admission killed thousands of opponents since The Clone Wars.
So even Dying Krayt should be far, far more competent than A’Sharad, who had given Kenobi hell. But there’s still an even more pronounced difference between Dying and Reborn Krayt. If we compare Dying Krayt’s fight with post-Sith Cade, to Reborn Krayt’s fight with prime Cade, we can notice two things.
1. The first fight was much harder for Krayt, as it spanned several pages with copious dialogue, and Krayt was visibly strained and bloodlusted. In comparison, Reborn Krayt, whose intention is not to even kill Cade outright but subject him to Dark Transfer, remains a relaxed demeanour during the short amount of fighting we see between them. You can say much of the fight happened off-panel, but if it was meant to be a difficult fight, it would have been portrayed similarly to Krayt’s first bout with Cade or his pages-long fight with Wyyrlok.
2. Cade himself had achieved a “newfound mastery of the Force” and had gained copious fighting experience since his first fight with Krayt. Meaning, Reborn Krayt’s power increase was more rapid than the fastly increasing power of a Skywalker.
So in summary, Dying Krayt should compare even more favourably to Kenobi than A’Sharad was able to, who even at that early stage caused Kenobi significant grief. But then Reborn, by all evidence, leaves Dying Krayt in the dust as a fighter, so there’s no doubt in my mind that Reborn Krayt is in excess of Obi-Wan’s dueling skill by his prime. That should make him a match for anyone on the opposing team.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
As I see it, Krayt has a few distinct edges over his opposition here. First of all, thanks to dark transfer, Krayt can oneshot anyone on the opposing team with a touch - this is how he defeated Cade in War. This power is a combination of dark healing and shatterpoint, where the user pours excessive amounts of Force energy into the micro-wounds and tears within the opponent’s body, which are represented as “red lines” via shatterpoint. This fully bypasses any kind of Force defences and has nothing to do with a power comparison between two enemies, it’s a direct attack on the body and is not negatable, by all evidence.
For a clear idea of how potent it is; Cade was capable of killing Talon and Shado Vao, both of whom only had minor, non-visible wounds, such as Talon’s bruises from sparring. With the addition of Shatterpoint, Cade went from not being able to heal Krayt’s vong affliction due to there being too many jumbled up red lines to see, to being able to see clearly how weak Krayt was. From that time on, Cade could heal Krayt, so it’s inferrable that his ability to cause damage was likewise increased due to Shatterpoint.
Cade even reduced the Muur Talisman, which is likely lightsaber proof, otherwise Celeste Morne would have destroyed it, to dust with Shatterpoint, so imagine what he or Krayt could do to a fragile human body. https://imgur.com/a/hs0k8
As for how Krayt would be able to do this here; as we know, Krayt is a Jar’kai practitioner, and as we saw, even A’Sharad Hett laid a glove on Kenobi’s face during their fight. When he fought Cade the second time, he purposefully fought with one lightsaber so his other hand was free to use Dark Transfer. So all Krayt has to do to secure victory is hold one lightsaber with one arm while he strikes with the other, and it’s game over. Given he was able to do so against a defensive master like Obi-Wan, well before his prime where he should be in excess of Obi-Wan, the idea that he could at least punch Mace Windu, Galen or Ulic seems not only plausible, but a guaranteed eventuality. This also means that Mace Windu’s usual edge of Shatterpoint that he brings to combat is negated by Krayt’s own mastery of it.
Krayt can also heal himself from grievous injuries, as shown when Cade has brought people back from the brink of death, instantly healed a stab wound in the shoulder, cleansed himself of lethal doses of drugs that are stronger than death sticks or the rakghoul infection, or shown by how Krayt brought himself back from death after being stabbed, thrown off a cliff by a lightning storm and then further shocked to death by Wyyrlok. The longer the fight goes on, the more fatigued everyone else gets barring Krayt. https://imgur.com/a/KGHOy
And as a final note, thanks to the three hours of preparation, Krayt and Wyyrlok could devise a strategy to work together, due to their intimate understanding of each other’s capabilities and fighting styles. They can also communicate with Shimmra due to a mutual knowledge of basic, and thanks to their mutual understanding of the Vong’s disconnection from the Force, they could capitalise on this heavily. As we saw, Krayt has first-hand experience fighting the Vong and spent a great deal of time among them.
Mace, Galen and Ulic are all totally ignorant of the Vong, and have never fought one; because they are impossible to sense through the Force or precognition, Force users need to rely on only their physical senses alone to defeat them. This is a massive hindrance, because Force senses are like a 6th sense of their own that Force users take for granted their entire lives, and they also take for granted their precognition, which alerts them to incoming strikes. This was made abundantly clear when Darth Maul was struck twice by a Vong gladiator, purely because he was blind to him through the Force.
So, between Wyyrlok’s immense mastery of sorcery, Krayt’s capacity to oneshot any of his opponents, and Shimmra’s absence from conventional Force senses, the opposing team is going to be fighting against several weapons they are woefully unprepared to deal with, without any prior knowledge. It would only require a few minor mistakes and some complacency regarding Force senses, or a minor distraction from Wyyrlok’s telepathy for example, for Krayt to wipe out an enemy, and that’s if he doesn’t simply oneshot an opponent in normal saber combat.
As a final note, it's more than likely that Krayt will engage Mace Windu in this fight; he will recognise him from his time as a Jedi, and the resentment he has for the Jedi, as well as his warrior personality will likely drive him towards Windu, either to kill him out of a sense of revenge or to test his mettle against him.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
a) Lightsaber combat, with focus on Wyyrlok's fight against Krayt reborn
b) Wyyrlok's Force mastery- and knowledge
All in relevance to the fight at hand, of course.
Wyyrlok III's lightsaber skill is ambiguous. We have no idea whether he thought of lightsaber battles as tedious, like Plagueis, or whether he specifically enjoyed them, like Tenebrous. We don't know the extent of his lightsaber mastery, or the form(s) he preferred to employ. Therefore, it would only be fair to hand all of Mace, Marek and Ulic the edge in sheer lightsaber skill (the former two especially, as they are Juyo masters, requiring them to be ''high-end masters of multiple forms'' per Insider 62. Ulic's exact level of proficiency is similarly vague, though still more clear-cut, with The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia claiming that he ''quickly mastered the art of lightsaber dueling'').
However, in War, Wyyrlok fights against Krayt reborn. As presented above, Krayt ''perfected his combat technique over many decades'' and is clearly a Force wielder of exemplary skill and mastery. And even then, Wyyrlok held his own against Krayt, losing not in the lightsaber portion of the fight but when Krayt ''tricks'' Wyyrlok's utilization of Memory Walk. So clearly, Wyyrlok himself is a Force wielder of enough power and skill to, in a lightsaber battle, hold his own against Krayt at his best. As such, due to Krayt's high level of power and skill, I believe that he would also provide a strong challenge against any of the three opponents he might come up against in this confrontation.
To elaborate on Wyyrlok's Force abilities, he is ''a master of Sith lore and magic'' and a ''master of ritual lore of the Sith and all the ways of the dark side'' (Legacy 0½) with access to ’'books, scrolls, holocrons and computer records from across the eons’’ (Legacy Era campaign guide), this all before presumably growing in power. This we can conclude due to:
Krayt's ''dark side abilities'' were superior to Wyyrlok's own when Krayt was encased in the Vong armor (Insider 88)
Krayt's powers grew fairly much from when he was covered in Vong parasites to when he is ''reborn'', as per his own words and ILS' outline above
Yet Wyyrlok competed adequately well with Krayt's reborn incarnation
So obviously, Wyyrlok is a very knowledgeable and masterful Force wielder, especially as what pertains to Sith sorcery. Just a small note: the OP specifies that 3 hours of prep are available. ILS makes a good point on teamwork, and in addition, it is likely, in my opinion, though not for absolutely certain, that Wyyrlok could cook up some of his ritual-related talents, thanks to his extensive mastery of such. In any case, this is just an additional tangent I wanted to bring up.
With his vast knowledge of Sith lore and rituals, even being deemed a ''master of all the ways of the dark side'', his impressive mastery of Sith sorcery and his battle against Krayt in mind, I find it conceivable that, should he survive an initial lightsaber encounter long enough, he would be able to have gathered enough power to conjure a devestating assault on the mind of his adversary. Would they be able to overcome such an attack? Hard to say for sure. To my knowledge, of Mace, Marek and Ulic, only the latter has experience with Sith sorcery, and not to the degree that Wyyrlok has at any rate. Even if it would not outright subdue whomever he is fighting, it could serve as an distraction as a way to gain the upper hand, especially in a moment of exhaustion or lapse of concentration. We know from Dynasty of Evil that such a tactic has been utilized by Zannah, another sorcerer of note:
That is not to say that Wyyrlok himself would engage with such a tactic in mind, nor that he would be comparably successful if he did, but more that it is another possible route that his fight could follow.
To summarize:
Wyyrlok's own level of power and skill are sufficient to do well against Krayt, whose own abilities are described above - this is a good enough feat to suggest that he will be able to do well against any one of the opposition, in my opinion
If possible, Wyyrlok could attack with Sith sorcery, which would likely turn the tie in his favor
Anyhow, Wyyrlok's main objective here isn't necessarily to beat his opponent, but instead be strong enough to allow Shimrra to come into play while Krayt fights Mace (as ILS points out, that could be likely). Bart will elucidate in the following post.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
My opener will be pretty short, since I prefer to prove a character's superiority by addressing opponent's points. Other than that, I believe Shimrra's superiority is so obvious, expanding isn't really needed - it would be like trying to provide analysis on why Palpatine > Vader. I will do that if others don't find Shimrra stomping on their own.
What I will focus in the beginning shall be the aspect of Shimrra's presumable tactics alongside his team. I strongly believe Shimrra would plan alongside the others for him to go for after the most warrior-type among the enemy. It's incredibly simple. Wyyrlok is the loremaster and an alchemist, the Force expert, Krayt is the balanced one, while Shimrra is the perfect Yuuzhan Vong specimen, warrior all-around. With Yuuzhan Vongs taking honor in a direct head-to-head combat, he will go after the one who seems to be able to give it. Among the three of the opponents it's obviously the armored, Djem So-wielding Ulic, not the robed Mace, nor youngster Galen. Ulic has the biggest warrior vibe, no doubt. I can easily go with Shimrra facing Galen, though. Against Mace - i doubt that, given ILS's post.
My basic point is - Shimrra can stomp either Ulic or Galen. Few seconds are all Shimrra needs to finish the fight.
Shimrra is an opponent on an entirely different level than all of his opponents. He's for all accounts and purpose Yoda level, or microscopically below him. None of the opponents can compare with him, that's all.
Galen Marek is basically Vader level. He is noted to be able to defeat him via exploiting knowledge about his fighting style, and basically having the best set of skills to counter Vader with said knowledge; greater mobility, greater agility. Now, this is the Vader below the version that RotJ Luke was an equal with.
Now Ulic Qel-Droma. How much of his power do you guys attribute to his education in the Dark Side? His best claim to power, equal fight with Exar Kun happened just shortly after his fall, without any real training in the dark arts. I guess the fact how absurdly Exar Kun is below Revan should do the math given amounts of powerscaling occuring later through the Banite line of Sith and their Jedi counterparts in PT time. Going to expand on this depending on the road you take, puting Qel-Droma as the weakest of your team despite how his "warrior aura" will definitely lure Shimrra, who can't sense how little power he has compared to others.
So, as I've said, Galen, who I believe to be superior to Ulic, is a combatant on pre-RotJ Vader, while we have RotJ Luke on par. Okay. And now let's go further. Shimmra fought Luke Skywalker by the end of TUF. That was a heavily tired Luke that just went through his whole citadel, and I know that, but it makes no difference. Even in this weakened state, Luke fought 15 Slayers alongside Jaina and Jacen, and managed to win, just before engaging Shimrra himself. And despite handling most of the Slayers, he... lost to Shimrra. Plain and simple.
I kind of really believe it makes everything over. We have Shimrra dispatching the tired Luke that stomped the Slayers, with Luke winning basically a'la Obi-Wan against Maul in TPM. Shimrra gloats, prolongs the execution, and Luke gets the time for a cheapshot. That's basically game over for me.
Nobody on the battlefield can hope to compete with Shimrra. At all. Shimrra was beating Luke who battled against four Slayers at once.
I can now provide dozens of quotes demonstrating Luke's skill development across the New Jedi Order era and how he is practically guaranteed to be reaching Palpatine levels, while Palpatine shits all over Kun and therefore Ulic. I don't have to do anything to demonstrate that also means shitting on Galen, since RotJ Luke already shat on superior version of Vader before achieving even enough skill to prevent being stomped by Lumiya. But I'll just go with the idea you guys know your stuff and won't be arguing the obvious. Happy to provide you with enlightenment if you don't.
You guys may try to argue "but Lightning", the only hope against Shimrra's laughable superiority. However, this line of thought really goes down the toilet. Luke used Emerald Lightning on a Slayer, oneshotting him, yet he didn't even try to do it against Shimrra. Too much pressure? Too little time? Too small distance? In any event, I really believe that Luke, after fighting Yuuzhan Vongs for 4 years, slaughtering them in thousands, really knows better when to use Force Lightning than we do. I'm kind of certain Luke, with all this experience against Yuuzhans and 30 years mastering the Force, really is wiser than JKBart or Ellimist in terms of knowing when it's the time to use the "trump card".
This is how Luke handled Slayer with Lightning, and still refrained from even trying to use it against Shimrra:
This might be because of the fact Force Lightning can be dodged. Luke and Shimrra, being levels above Slayers, Slayers being above Kyp Durron, Kyp Durron being dozens of magnitudes of power above Darth Bane, prime Darth Bane being superior to RoT Bane, prolly says that, when Hetton did this against Bane:
Given Hetton can dodge Lightning, I can't see how Shimrra can't do it against Galen's Lightning or any amulet power coming from Ulic.
That's it. The post is simple, basic as hell, because Shimrra's superiority is equally basic. I suspect a defense will be made, so here I am, waiting with about 50 books to quote, cause I really don't know where to start with stuff that's so obvious.
__________________
They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."
Don't worry, unlike our conversation from a few days ago it doesn't involve many big words you'll struggle to understand and feel embarrassed watching DarthSkywalker0 grasp it right away
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Last edited by The Ellimist on Feb 26th, 2018 at 08:07 PM
Feb 25th, 2018 08:09 PM
