Alongside the First Firmament, these are five other Eternities, each one the living embodiment of 'infinite multiverses', with Infinity becoming the embodiment of the Seventh Multiverse (the one pre-Secret Wars). They themselves were also shown to have existed and have returned from a place called the Far Shore, and took the First Firmanent to a place beyond the Far Shore, where everything begins.
Last time I checked, DC comics doesn't have anything on this kind of scale: https://imgur.com/a/4x8H7Vn
DC cosmology functions solidly on string theory and branes, and the vibrational frequencies of said strings and branes. The Orrery of Worlds is the lowest dimensional brane, existing below the Sphere of the Gods, which in turn exists below the Monitor Sphere, then the Source Wall which separates everything from the Overmonitor.
Long story short: the DC cosmology is shaped through different branes which exist at different vibrational frequencies.
The Marvel multiverse structure is defined by divergence in time, but it is also a multiverse that possesses a Brane structure, like the DC Multiverse, because the cosmic abstracts are able to interact with each other and exist on higher-dimensional planes:
^ Up to at least 16-dimensions, according to this scan. It can be said to be how cosmic entities like the Living Tribunal can act in individual realities without causing time divergences - they already exist "outside" those timelines.
But the Beyonders themselves also exist and come from their own higher-dimensional Universe, one which the Living Tribunal itself mentions, and is where the energies for the Cosmic Cubes come from.
In other words, another Universe on a higher dimension separate from the main Marvel Multiverses in their entirety - separate from the First Firmament, the Second to Sixth Cosmos, and separate from the two-in-one Seventh and Eighth Cosmos.
The Marvel cosmology allows for more than one cosmic embodiment of infinite multiverses to exist at any one time, with the Far Shore (and whatever is beyond it) being another plane of existence where those other Eternities reside.
On the other hand, most of the infinite Universes (or multiverses) of the DCU are confined within the Bleed. With the Bleed itself being a "brane" within the Sphere of the Gods, housing its own dimensions; the Sphere of Gods being a "brane" within the Monitor Sphere.
^ "The Orrery of Worlds - 52 brane universes vibrating in the same space, all at different frequencies, within the all-enclosing Bulk, otherwise known as Bleed-Space".
In other words, string theory, one which leaves any other multiverses that exist ("evolved" Pre-Crisis, original Pre-Crisis, Hypertime, and the 52 Multiverse) as being enclosed within the Bulk. At minimum, there are those four known Multiverses. The one exception is the Dark Multiverse, given it is what the Multiverse proper sits on top of.
DC has 2-4 known multiverses, Marvel has INFINITE Multiverses
Each of the Eternities above comprises an "infinite Multiverse" (or "infinite Universe" in the case of the First Firmament), hence "more than one cosmic embodiment of infinite multiverses".
^All of that exists within just one Eternity. It is a complicated mess, and I normally do not partake in "infinite" or "transfinite" things in debates, but I guess I sometimes need to from time to time.
Even with all of this existing within Eternity, the six other embodiments of the Multiverse before it still resided in another place on a higher plane of existence - the Far Shore, and there is a place beyond even that.
Basically The present (local) DC Multiverse is limited to 52 Earths within the Bleed, surrounded by the Sphere of the Gods and the Monitor Sphere, with only three other Multiverses within the Bleed at minimum, with the highest number for the pre-Crisis Multiverse being in the 3000s, and Hypertime is described as "ephemeral", as only a Central Timeline can prevail.
That's established DC Comics Cosmology, in the present day.
Also Everything within the Source Wall is just one Multiverse, even when you take into account Convergence bringing back past iterations of the Multiverse within the Bleed. There is what is within the Bleed, the Orrery of Worlds, and then there is what exists in the Sphere of the Gods and Monitor Sphere. That's all one Multiverse, as defined by Morrison's map, and the limit of the Presence's Creation (thus of the DC Multiverse).
The Source Wall is the boundary of the DC Multiverse, so everything contained with the Source Wall, the Sphere of the Gods, and the Bleed is all one Multiverse.
The fact that all of those dimensions and branes are interconnected with one another. Heaven, Hell, Nightmare, Dream, Highland, and the Underworld are all connected to the worlds inside the Bleed; they simply exist on a higher vibrational realm/brane than the Universes in the Bleed do, with the same applying to the Monitor Sphere.
They are individual realms and dimensions, but the way the Multiverse is set up makes all of them part of one Multiverse.
Also, when people talk about "universes" in the narrative, usually they're referring to the universes within the Orrery/Bleed. When the map talks about the "Multiverse" or the Monitors discuss the "multiverse", they're talking about the universes contained within the Orrery.
The Dreaming is outside the Orrery and is thus not referred to as part of the "multiverse", it is outside the multiverse. Same thing with Heaven and Hell. These are realms outside of what characters refer to as the "multiverse". This is different from the reader lumping all these places in the "multiverse".
I'm also going to point out that there is no reason multiple multiverses couldn't just be lumped into a bigger multiverse. The term "multiverse" just means multiple universes. If you have the 52 main universes + Heaven + Hell, that's still multiple universes, and can thus still be referred to as a "multiverse".
A Multiverse is multiple universes, so no matter how many you have it's still a Multiverse. An infinite number of universes would still fall under the term "multiverse".
Also, Every moment spawning new Universes is something already built into the Marvel Cosmology, along with the higher-dimensional realms which Marvel cosmic beings exist within that put them beyond the happenings of a "Quantum multiverse".
If Multiverse A has 52 universes and Multiverse B has 48 universes, you have two multiverses co-existing in this setting. But, you can draw a map that has 1 "multiverse" that contains 100 universes, and is just split into another lower level of A and B.
it doesn't matter how many universes you add, it can still, under the definition of multiverse, be called a multiverse. No matter how many you have, or how many you have.
DC has one multiverse, according to the map.
It can, however, be subdivided into "smaller" multiverses, like the 52, Hypertime, Dark Multiverse, Heaven, etc. But all of those together can still fit the definition of multiverse, so together or apart all those things can be called a multiverse.
If I have one infinite set, it is still infinite. If I have one set (set being the key word) of an infinite number of universes/realities, then it is still one set. A multiverse is a set. It doesn't matter how many things you put into a multiverse, you can have an infinite number of infinite sets (read: multiverses), but the final set, once you put all the infinite number of sets together, can still be called a set on its own. It doesn't matter how many universes/realities a setting has, it can always be referred to as a multiverse. If you subdivide the setting into smaller, discrete groupings of realities, each of those too can be called a multiverse.
past multiverses in DC Comics are just the same Multiverse that underwent cosmological changes due to drastic cosmic events, which is why you have entities able to remember the events and worlds of DC all the way back to Pre-Crisis. I.e. all the big "Crisis events" took place within the confines of the Bleed, meaning all the changes to the structure of the Universe/Multiverse were confined to the Bleed during the cross-over events where that happened.
There are only "multiple multiverses" in the Bleed now because Convergence's ending resulted in the Anti-Monitor being stopped before he could destroy the original, Pre-Crisis Multiverse, effectively turning every iteration of the DC Universe (those within the Bleed) into one cohesive whole, with each "multiverse" existing in its own grouping within the Bleed.
With the multiple Eternities, on the other hand, it would be as if Relic's Universe still existed, rather than collapsing and dying out completely to make way for the DC Universe as we know it. The Eternities are ancient Multiverse embodiments, each of them predating the modern Marvel Multiverse, each of them still alive:
@Hulkster let me know your thoughts on it, I have FAR more, thats not even close
These dudes have nothing else besides "PlAgArize" because it upsets them. Go and google it and see where its from and get back at me. Until then, DC being inferior to marvel stands. not disputable
it's cute how alberto starts fangirling over some random marvel vs. dc dissertation that he found online, and starts preaching about it like it's the gospel.
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May 28th, 2020 03:35 PM
