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Mithrandir
The Grey Wanderer
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
replace inept with inable (once again very late)
__________________
Where is the Horse and the Rider?
Where was the horn that was blowing?
They have passed liked rain on the mountains.
Like Wind in the Meadows.
The days have gone down in the west.
Pella i amoni tenn' lumbule
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Jun 25th, 2003 04:56 AM |
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Evil Dead
Enemy of the Gospel
 Gender: Male
Location: U.S. F'N A |
I don't pretend to know how the story will turn out..........there are so many ideas out there that are good...........I have no clue how it will end.......but I am positive Neo is a program. It is the only way he can be "trapped between worlds" as the Oracle tells Niobe in Enter the Matrix..........I'm sure you've played and beaten it because you are keeping up with the Matrix story so well that you've had to of. His body is in the real world in a coma.........yet his mind is in the Matrix........his body isn't jacked in. Only programs can exist in the Matrix without being jacked in. Yes he is "the one".........he is only "the one" in the Matrix, not the real world........he still has to be jacked in (if he were completely human) to be inside the Matrix............the oracle even tells us that part of himself (program ahem) was left inside the Matrix when he touched the source. This is how Neo still exists in the Matrix while not being jacked into it.............This also explains why the architect says all of "the ones" were designed............they designed the programs......
"Pick which one, program or human! last time i checked programs are inept to have brains or a personality for that manner."
Okay.......I guess you missed the part in Reloaded where BANE is a human body with a program in his head, the program being Smith......way to keep up with the story there believing that human bodies cannot have programs inserted into them.
"Neo has both. and love too. lets take the sex scene in M2....do u think two programs would have had sex? in a simulation? if ur right then there are some pretty sick simulation runners! i do believe he may have some powers than extend over the machines, but a thoroughly deny its a training simulation! that would be the worst ending plot to a movie series since the autrocious "Godfather Part 3"! well, im a little tired and a little irritable at this hour, apologies to all"
agreed.........that would be horrible.........but it is plausable from what we know thus far..........I don't think it's a simulation, that would make all 3 movies pointless.........but it's a possibility, nothing in any movie has ruled it out so far. You have to look at all the options, not just the one you think or hope will happen.
as far Newsflash being annoying...........don't care......I read so much crap on here by people who havn't even followed the story line through both movies and the game yet insist on posting ideas that are contrary to information we have already been given........that annoys the shit out of me..........if I annoy someone every now and then with something I post..........oh well, atleast what I post can actually be backed up by information we've been given in the movies, not something I've just made up because I think it would be cool and goes against information we've already been given.
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Jun 25th, 2003 01:48 PM |
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nickjs21
Senior Member
 Gender: Male
Location: Cleveland |
i didn't know philosophy was so adept at turning brother against brother . . .
__________________
"i don't know half of you half as well as i should like, and i like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -- Bilbo Baggins
"what we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly." -- Thomas Paine
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Jun 26th, 2003 06:39 AM |
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Mithrandir
The Grey Wanderer
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
dear evil dead, sry for being a bit of a jerk before....i was a little tired and acted a little to harshly at what u wrote. Your belief is just as good as anyone elses. Once again, many apologies.
__________________
Where is the Horse and the Rider?
Where was the horn that was blowing?
They have passed liked rain on the mountains.
Like Wind in the Meadows.
The days have gone down in the west.
Pella i amoni tenn' lumbule
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Jun 27th, 2003 03:58 PM |
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Evil Dead
Enemy of the Gospel
Gender: Male
Location: U.S. F'N A |
bah.......it's just the internet.........nothing to get me too steamed or anything.........all water under the bridge..........I was just saying that even though what I believe will happen in Revolutions may not (and probably won't) turn out to be correct.......it doesn't go against any info. we've learned........it doesn't defy any information we've been given so far. Hell.......we are all probably wrong........we'll all watch Reloaded and be hit with something we didn't even anticipate could be a possiblility.
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Jun 28th, 2003 12:10 AM |
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lordnikon
Junior Member
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: Romania |
hi,
there are 2 matrix-es: one the matrix ('they belive it's the year 1999') and the second one ('but it's closer to 2199') there is no doubt about it ... and the second one changes from time to time to prevent the 1% that reject the 1st matrix to "destroy" it.
What troubles me is ... choice ... when Neo was talkin to the Architect ... when he says "Visavi LOVE" he pushes the button and all the screens change into images of Trinity ... after a while the screens show images that have't happened in the movie (like when the Agent has his hand on her throat and is punching her) ... why is that?
__________________
What happened happened and could't have happened any other way. This is our destiny. We are here only to understad it.
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Jun 28th, 2003 01:33 PM |
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Sifer
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom |
It isn't closer to 2199 it is more like 2899 
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Sifer
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Jun 28th, 2003 03:50 PM |
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Evil Dead
Enemy of the Gospel
Gender: Male
Location: U.S. F'N A |
#1. my last post I said "Reloaded"..........I meant Revolutions, you guys probably knew that.
#2. Sifer is correct..........the rebels didn't know that this is the 6th version of the Matrix, they thought it was the first. If the life cycle of the Matrix is 100 years as Morpheus states in the first movie then it has been 600 years, not 100
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Jun 28th, 2003 07:05 PM |
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BBR-Trashman
The Trashman has you!
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
OK, here is what I think, not worth much, but I have followed the movie and played the games. I also believe the simplest answers are also the correct ones. I have Matrix reloaded on DVD and have been watching it cause I want to understand what the heck he was talking about. I also like watching the fight sequences.
Neo was born from a mother. I believe he was human. I believe he went through some kind of evoultion after he died. The architect said he has remained human. I think he does eventually end up becoming a program if he is not one already. He can see code and I think he may be a program already. Morpheus said in the Rev trailer that someone brought up, "He fights for us." That confused me because, of course Neo fights for them, but maybe all the stuff he goes through makes him a program, not a machine. All machines are programmed, so that's why Neo can stop them. I think that the Matrix will nto be destroyed. I think Neo takes the place of the architect. Destroying the Matrix will kill everyone connected to it. ALL humans in the matrix will die. Unless they take every human and bring them to the real world. I think it won't,so that the new video game coming out, The Matrix Online, will continue on the story.
As for the architect, I been thinking about it. He created the Matrix, but not the real world. He is not a god, just a genious so to speak. I wonder how he sends machines to the real world. It would take a human in teh real world to build a machine. I know I am just confusing myself and getting lost in my thoughts, but i wonder where he came from. Maybe he is some kind of program himself. Maybe he is some sort of an anomally. I don;t know. We know what happens to Zion, but not the anomally. He carries code he inserts into the matrix, like rebooting the program. The Matrix is older than Neo knows, but it's not ancient by any means.
I believe that Everyone in Zion is human, but when they come to the real world, do they become machines? Even Dozer says that He's a machine. Maybe the only real humans in the real world are the ones born there. They don't have any abilities like people who were born in the Matrix. They can't even enter the matrix. All the people in teh matrix are probably code or machines designed by the architect to reflect what his own image looks like. I just contradicted what I said about Neo being human, but the more I write the more I think I understand. There are programs hacking programs and programs doing what there not suppose to. Maybe Neo is a program doing what he is not suppose to. Same as teh Oracle in that respect. Maybe same as everyone that came from the Matrix. They are a program doing what there not suppose to. He kills everyone in the real world so he can have all the control. What do men with power want, more power. The Merovingian is probably the architects right hand man. He has survived the predecessors and, if you pay attention to the trailer, captures Neo. Trinity says you give me Neo or we all die, Mero says something and Trinity says you better believe it. How he captures Neo, I don't know. He has to do it in the Matrix, cause that's where they go to save him.
In a small confusing summary, everything in the Matrix was created by the Architect. Humans excepted it, but what humans, it's a program. THe only real humans are the ones born in the real world. I apologize for my ramblings and my contradictive statements, I didn't thoroughly think this through until I started writing.
If the simplest answer is true, then Mr.Anderson wakes up from a dream and lives out his normal life. The Matrix is a dream world, maybe it's all just a dream. The worst part is waiting for REV to see what actually happens. I just hope they don't disappoint.
EDIT: I said that too about the Matrix being 600 years old. I think it's a little older cause it takes years for a population to produce. I said 600 years and I erased it cause I thought I would be wrong. I am going to watch the movie to see if my perception changes.
Last edited by BBR-Trashman on Jun 28th, 2003 at 07:14 PM
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Jun 28th, 2003 07:11 PM |
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nickjs21
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: Cleveland |
i haven't seen the movie in a while, nikon, so my timing might be off. but i think some of the things they show on the screen are what's happening right that instant. only seconds pass from the time neo leaves the architect's room to when he catches trinity. they show it later in the movie then they do on the screen because, well, other then play the movie split-screen there's not much else you can do.
__________________
"i don't know half of you half as well as i should like, and i like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -- Bilbo Baggins
"what we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly." -- Thomas Paine
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Jun 28th, 2003 07:14 PM |
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Metroplex
Senior Member
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: Canada |
I have another question aboout the six previous ones
If the previous "ones" wanted the next "ones" to beat the architecte, how come they just dont make up a detailed prophecy of the whole encounter with the architect?? That way, the next One can actually better counter and beat the architect in his own game.
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Its not the size of the boat that counts, but the flow of the ocean.
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Jun 28th, 2003 10:36 PM |
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The Gryphon
Junior Member
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
ok. Neo is a human that lives in the real world. This has been said many times throughout the first and second matrix.He stopped the sentinels because his mind had touched the source and his mind could feel the sentinels because it had control over their power. Now his mind is fully within "an area between the matrix and the realworld." Stopping the sentinels doesn't prove anything about a matrix within a matrix thoery. I do agree with Neo being a program to a certain extent. check this out:
When a child is inserted into the matrix he can't just wake up and be in a play pen for no reason, even a baby wouldn't except that. So how do you insert a new human into the matrix without raising suspicion? Simple: Within nine months after the baby is conceived, a baby is inserted into the pod of a formerly deceased human. Each pod is numbered and therefore carries a certain code, wich is how an opperator can spot a rebel in the matrix, how past lives are experienced, How the red pill can track their position in the power plant, and how Thomas became the one is explained.
Thomas Anderson was inserted into the pod of the anomaly, the odd pod out of all of them that the previous ones were inserted into. That gave him his identity and personality, because how can you develop your personality or personal style when your never awake?
I do not beleive, however, that Neo's mind is straight up programmed. The matrix works on like a every system has an exception rule. The pods are directly wired to the matrix, and each pods individual code is it's input thing (?). It's only a port portraying each persons role in the matrix. Thomas's is the remainder, therefore the lowest comon denominator(or whatever) that simply CAN NOT accept the matrix for the real world. Therefore his mind is not programmed, it's influenced by the pod that he's in.
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your mom
Last edited by The Gryphon on Jun 29th, 2003 at 10:23 AM
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Jun 29th, 2003 09:49 AM |
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The Gryphon
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
Wait, i'm not done.
Everytime the matrix is changed to a new version, the actuall equations within the system are slightly altered until Neo becomes quite different in many ways than the other ones. the versions of the matrix are systems within a system and work for the benefit of the system and do what they are prophecised to do. I don't think that makes them anomalys at all. Not if they don't disrupt the order of the system. Neo is the eventuallity of an anomaly that is caused when the program of the matrix changes to include love into the ones purpose, he is the unbalanced part that doesn't fit the equation of the reloading process.
damm i just typed alot.
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your mom
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Jun 29th, 2003 10:29 AM |
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The Omega
Z10N0101
 Gender: Female
Location: Denmark |
We know from the Architect scene, that the previous Ones were allowed to take 23 people FROM the actual Matrix and rebuild Zion. Morpheus speaks of the previous One in M1, as a “man born within the Matrix who freed the first of us.” Obviously the previous Ones have either been brainwashed in the Source or simply chosen not to tell the whole truth, knowing that if the door to the Source is not chosen by the next anomaly all of mankind will perish.
Neo was not BORN to be the one. He chose to become the One. He had the potential just like all the children waiting in the Oracles apartment in M1, such as the spoon-child. This is one of the things that also shows us that Neo is different from his predecessors. He is a lot older. We learn in M1 that Neo was actually too old to be freed, since the an older mind has trouble accepting the real world. If Neo as a baby had been inserted into a “special” pod, the system simply had to make sure that he was found by the rebels.
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
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Jun 30th, 2003 01:08 PM |
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Koala MeatPie
Tonk's Husband
 Gender: Male
Location: Cute And Fluffy In My Tummy |
 I Know This Can Go bit Back In The Thread
Okay,
So Here is WHAT I THINK. I Beleive that Neo was able to "Sense The Machines Inside of Him" as said in the Movie Because he is still conected, NOT the "still be in the matrix yet not jacked in" connected thing, but I mean that THE "REAL WORLD" IS ONLY ANOTHER MATRIX, that or as previously stated all in Thomas Anderson's head, be it, A DREAM. How else can he sense them? (I read the THREADS and I read about the "programed Neo, But here me out) Sentinals have some kind of wireless network within them that allows them to contact each other AND THE AGENTS, as said by agent Smith in the original movie "deploy the sentinals",
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HERE IS WERE I START TO CONDRADICT MYSELF
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I said that they have a wireles network to the agents, we learn that Neo is connected to agent Smith, thus he is able to connect to the sentinals, YET as said in ETM when Niobe meets Smith (right before she flees in china town witch can be a B**** in hard mode) Smith says that he is not an ageny anymore
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BACK TO MY ORIGINAL STATMENT
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So If Smith is not an agent, he has lost contact with the Sentinals, and the Wireless network, wich by the way is a HARDWARE inside the COLLECTIVE CPU of the sentinal and NOT a telecenetic power, also, we know that smith lost contact with the others because he has no more ear-peice.
SO how can Neo sense AND zap the sentinals? Easy, he is still connected to the seconde Matrix, aka the "real" world.
 Attachment: crash.jpg
This has been downloaded 42 time(s).
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Jul 1st, 2003 04:37 AM |
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kobeprodgi
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: Trinidad And Tobago |
All the theories expressed here are based on the predication that Neo's (The One) purpose was to chose to save Zion. I have postulated that Neo in actuality serves no such pupose. Othewise why would Agent Smith (in The Matrix) and the Merovingian (in The Matrix Reloaded) have tried to kill "The One", which would only have resulted in the destruction of the Matrix and their own demise. While the five before Neo may very well have chosen to save Zion (that is assuming that they made it that far in the first place), this "choice" was irrelevant !.
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Jul 8th, 2003 07:16 PM |
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kobeprodgi
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: Trinidad And Tobago |
We must first ask ourselves which came first, the Matrix or the One. I believe the obvious answer is the Matrix. Thus this would mean that Zion would have been populated by those who initially rejected the Programe, long before the One ever came into existance. Therefore the "choice" of the "One" is merely another variable in the programing of the Matrix. However this sixth version of the "one" Neo is different than those before him. What exactly makes him different, and therin a greater threat to the continuance of the Matrix . . . . ?
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Jul 8th, 2003 07:29 PM |
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GABRIEL05
Doom Herald
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
*head spinning out of control*
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Jul 9th, 2003 08:43 AM |
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The Omega
Z10N0101
Gender: Female
Location: Denmark |
The Architect explains why at least the agents are out to get Neo. The system, while allowing the 1 % who do not accept the program to be freed, still needs to keep them in check. There is also no reason to believe, that every single program knows the whole truth about the reloading of the Matrix.
Smith does, and he’s sick and tired of running around chasing rebels in a virtual world. The Merovingian even kidnaps the Keymaker, maybe in an attempt to stop the endless reloads, or maybe he is just another form of control. If the One and the rebels don’t meet any resistance, they’ll get suspicious. And the “quest” of the One, must for all purposes seem real. The One can fight agents, he does not even have to dodge bullets when the time comes, as Morpheus says in M1.
Neos purpose is not to save Zion. The purpose of the One is to deliver the anomaly code to the Source, so the Matrix can be reloaded.
There is no reason to believe Zion was initially populated by rejects from the Matrix. Some humans survived the war against the Machines, and there may have been more than one city when the Matrix was first created. But one city and one alone was allowed to survive, when the first anomaly, in the first run of the Matrix came into being. The surviving humans started to hack into the Matrix to free their fellow humans and wage war against the machines.
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
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Jul 10th, 2003 12:10 AM |
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kobeprodgi
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: Trinidad And Tobago |
Omega> I must still beg to differ. If the "One's" purpose is to return to the "Source" way attempt to kill him ? And while it may be true that not every program knows everthing about the Matrix Agent Smith certainly did. I recall one of the first scenes of "Reloaded" where Smith talks to Smith "it's happening exactly as before . . . . well not exactly". We must also take into account that in "Reloaded" Agent Smith is no longer an "Agent" no longer an insturment of the Matrix, he is on his own agenda and he is still tryig to kill the "One". If the "One's" purpose was really to return to the source would not be attempting to kill him.
As for Zion there could be no survivors otherwise there would have been knowledge of the destruction for future generations. Nothing of this type of disaster was alluded to by any of the characters in the previous films. When Morpheus spoke to Neo in "The Matrix" he told him of a man born inside who freed the first of them. "Them" refering not to himself or those of his lifetime but to the initial inhabitants of the Zion he would have known of which would have been the 6th Zion.
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Jul 10th, 2003 11:42 AM |
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