Evil ideas?

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
You guys are so one sided.
Was Hitler Evil?
Depends whose perspective.
Sure you and I and a bunch of other people think he's evil, but to him and his advisors and his followers he wan't evil.
Ideas arn't evil. Its how they are evil. Genocide as an idea is not evil. How or if, it's carried out is evil.
But most of your arguments excluding some of Lil's, don't touch on point of view! It HAS to! that is the basic definition.

👆 Indeed.

And what Irene said also. Like I said, over and over again, depends on which side of the fence you are.

As I said, Hitler was indeed evil. He killed millions of people just because of his blind hatred for them. If that's not evil then I don't know what is.

There was more to Hitler's murders than 'blind hateret' Besides, like we said, over and over and over again, it depends from which presepctive you're looking at, does it not.

To many Americans Bush isnt evil, and America certanly isnt evil. Ask at least the half of the world, and they will all tell you that America is EVIL and so is Bush.

Please inform me as to what plausable reasoning was behind the barbaric actions of Hitler. What excuse could he have too murder millions of people. I'd really like to know. You are right though, it does depend on your perception of his actions, either the logical perception: He killed millions of people for no good reason, thus making him evil. Or the overly optomistic and naive perception: He was only following his beliefs and had some sort of reason beyond hatred and being evil.

Also, I don't think Bush is evil, just stupid. He has made mistakes, but he hasn't done anything purposely evil to anyone. At least not comparable to the skale of Hitlers actions.

I know it's fashionable to dislike America for the rest of the world. But to say America is evil is by far more foolish then appointing that same title to Hitler, someone who was far more deserving to the word "evil".

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
There was more to Hitler's murders than 'blind hateret' Besides, like we said, over and over and over again, it depends from which presepctive you're looking at, does it not.

You've said over and over again that people disagree about whether a given person is evil. But I don't think that in itself proves anything. Some people belive that Hitler is not evil. Some people also believe that the British royal family is made up of shape-shifting alien lizards. You can find people who'll believe damn near anything--but just because there's a difference of opinion on a topic doesn't mean that one of the opinions isn't objectively right, and the other opinion objectively wrong. I'm rambling, but I guess the point I'm getting accross is that perception does not dictate reality, so whether somebody is evil or not really isn't a matter of perception.

Originally posted by BackFire
Please inform me as to what plausable reasoning was behind the barbaric actions of Hitler. What excuse could he have too murder millions of people. I'd really like to know. You are right though, it does depend on your perception of his actions, either the logical perception: He killed millions of people for no good reason, thus making him evil. Or the overly optomistic and naive perception: He was only following his beliefs and had some sort of reason beyond hatred and being evil.

Also, I don't think Bush is evil, just stupid. He has made mistakes, but he hasn't done anything purposely evil to anyone. At least not comparable to the skale of Hitlers actions.

I know it's fashionable to dislike America for the rest of the world. But to say America is evil is by far more foolish then appointing that same title to Hitler, someone who was far more deserving to the word "evil".

Have I at any point justified or tried to justify Hitlers actions? Please, why dont you quote me at the place where i justified anything Hitler said/did!

It isnt 'fashionable' to hate America, it is what happens. Why dont you ask middle east if America is evil? Why dont you ask if Bush is evil? They will ALL tell you, that he is. A country that has been bombing another country for 13 years and keeping that country in sanctions is going to be labeled as EVIL...it has nothing to do with fashion!

To you, America is not evil, to many others it is, and no matter what you say about Bush and his intelligence, to many people in the East he is as evil as Hitler, or maybe more, since most of them never felt Hitler's 'wrath'

You get few people from Africa or Asia, and ask them who do you think is more evil, George Bush or Hitler, i can guarantee you that they will say Bush.

Its the perspective! That is important! From which side of the fence you are standing!

I have no problem with people thinking Bush is evil, I don't like Bush, never have, never will. And I fully understand why they think Bush is evil. I don't fault them for that. I do however, fault them for thinking that America is evil just because Bush is president. That would be like me saying German was evil because it was ruled by Hitler. It's simply silly. As is saying Bush is more evil then Hitler. It just isn't so. You can't fault an entire country for one mans mistake or evil actions, because there will be many many people in his own country that won't aprove of his actions. I also fault them for thinking that Bush is actually more evil then Hitler.

Bush is doing what he's doing in retaliation for 9/11. Had the terrorists never attacked the twin towers, then none of this would have happened. Hitler, on the other hand, did what he did out of pure, evil hatred.

I challenge you to give me any plausable reasoning behind Hitlers actions. There simply are none. He did what he did out of hatred for the Jews, and out of everyone who didn't conform to his way of thinking. He even went so far as killing German people who didn't think the way he did, you don't see Bush doing that, do you? If people really do believe Bush is more evil then Hitler, then I'm very glad I'm on the side of the fence that I'm on.

Anyways, I'm straying way off topic. The topic is this....is Hitler evil? Lets look at the definition of the word "evil" shall we?

"Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper."

Sounds like that fits Hitler like a glove, does it not? He purposely brought pain and suffering to millions of innocent people, just because of his "beliefs" and ideas that he brought to life. According to definition, that makes him evil.

Originally posted by Gregory
You've said over and over again that people disagree about whether a given person is evil. But I don't think that in itself proves anything. Some people belive that Hitler is not evil. Some people also believe that the British royal family is made up of shape-shifting alien lizards. You can find people who'll believe damn near anything--but just because there's a difference of opinion on a topic doesn't mean that one of the opinions isn't objectively right, and the other opinion objectively wrong. I'm rambling, but I guess the point I'm getting accross is that perception does not dictate reality, so whether somebody is evil or not really isn't a matter of perception.

Originally posted by BackFire
I do however, fault them for thinking that America is evil just because Bush is president. That would be like me saying German was evil because it was ruled by Hitler. It's simply silly. You can't fault an entire country for one mans mistake or evil actions, because there will be many many people in his own country that won't aprove of his actions.

Lets look at the definition of the word "evil" shall we?

"Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper."

Sounds like that fits Hitler like a glove, does it not? He purposely brought pain and suffering to millions of innocent people, just because of his "beliefs" and ideas that he brought to life. According to definition, that makes him evil.

I can only agree with what you said BF

and to answer gregory his question: No I do not believe that any idea without action can be inherrently evil.

Originally posted by BackFire
I have no problem with people thinking Bush is evil, I don't like Bush, never have, never will. And I fully understand why they think Bush is evil. I don't fault them for that. I do however, fault them for thinking that America is evil just because Bush is president. That would be like me saying German was evil because it was ruled by Hitler. It's simply silly. As is saying Bush is more evil then Hitler. It just isn't so. You can't fault an entire country for one mans mistake or evil actions, because there will be many many people in his own country that won't aprove of his actions. I also fault them for thinking that Bush is actually more evil then Hitler.

Bush is doing what he's doing in retaliation for 9/11. Had the terrorists never attacked the twin towers, then none of this would have happened. Hitler, on the other hand, did what he did out of pure, evil hatred.

I challenge you to give me any plausable reasoning behind Hitlers actions. There simply are none. He did what he did out of hatred for the Jews, and out of everyone who didn't conform to his way of thinking. He even went so far as killing German people who didn't think the way he did, you don't see Bush doing that, do you? If people really do believe Bush is more evil then Hitler, then I'm very glad I'm on the side of the fence that I'm on.

Anyways, I'm straying way off topic. The topic is this....is Hitler evil? Lets look at the definition of the word "evil" shall we?

"Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper."

Sounds like that fits Hitler like a glove, does it not? He purposely brought pain and suffering to millions of innocent people, just because of his "beliefs" and ideas that he brought to life. According to definition, that makes him evil.

You are not listening to me! Why the feck do i want to justify Hitler? And i ask you again, as i have in my previous post, a what point have i tried to justify any of his actions?
This has nothing to do with justification it has to do with perception.

Please, how many people off the streets of America will say that all Afganistani and Iraqi people are suicide bombers and evil people? You know, or at least you should know, that majority will.

You say its rediculous that people hate America because its lead by Bush, and again, you're wrong. It is the hateret of America as a power, reguardless who is its president.

My point being, again, is that there are no evil ideas. Hitler was ambicious, overly ambicious and so were his ideas! His actions were horrifying, but then again, so were all of the military leaders who were in charge of the camps...Hitler didnt personaly visit every single one of them and gave orders on how they are to be killed.

What the fúck? i dont like Hitler, but i do tend to look upon history with minimal prejudice.

What you see as evil, will not be seen as evil to others...I think, from European perspecive that Fidel Castro is not evil, I think its all America's fault, and Che Guevara was a hero. Also, i believe America is evil because of the war in Columbia, killing farmers in Collumbia because the greed over cocain. To me, thats evil, to many people in america wont be.

And if we take that little deffinition of yours, and put it to America's name, Bushe's name, Tony Blair's name whoever else you want, ce can all make them fit the profile, one way or another!

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
You guys are so one sided.
Was Hitler Evil?
Depends whose perspective.
Sure you and I and a bunch of other people think he's evil, but to him and his advisors and his followers he wan't evil.
Ideas arn't evil. Its how they are evil. Genocide as an idea is not evil. How or if, it's carried out is evil.
But most of your arguments excluding some of Lil's, don't touch on point of view! It HAS to! that is the basic definition.

An argument I very, VERY strongly reject, Tpt. Again, I despise moral relativism, and I think perspective has nothing to do with it. And I believe ideas can be evil.

And as Gregory says, the fallible opinion of people on who they support has NOTHING to do with it.

And Lil, the censorship system is not there to simply be bypassed by the use of accents, etc. I think everyone should refrain from bad language.

Try to keep your head cause otherwise, this is going to disappear in no time!

I think the politics needs to be removed to a very great distance also. We'd all like to comment on many of the points Lil raises on diverse issues but this is not the right place.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
An argument I very, VERY strongly reject, Tpt. Again, I despise moral relativism, and I think perspective has nothing to do with it. And I believe ideas can be evil.

And as Gregory says, the fallible opinion of people on who they support has NOTHING to do with it.

And Lil, the censorship system is not there to simply be bypassed by the use of accents, etc. I think everyone should refrain from bad language.

But then...everyone is in sense evil. Because according to deffinition...most people are in fact evil.

(p.s. I noticed how all your replys have your edit...that started to happen to me too)

I do think Evil is a very strong word which can not be used often

👆 just like 'hate'

yes, so we'd better leavel all the hitlers and bushs out of this. There is indeed a lot i would comment but....not the place to talk about politics.

You're right...👆 indeed. But you know, philosophy is politics and religion...most are teehee

philosophy and politics?..far from it 🙂

anyway..thing is..they're not allowed. i'm sure we can avoid them with little effort.

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
Evil Is very much so a matter of perception.
you are saying what you think is good and evil is reality.
Maybe in your own little world but not in the real one.

Actullay, I never said, claimed, or implied that "what [ I ] think is good and evil is reality." I said that some notion of good and evil was reality. It might or might not be mine.