The reason why the ANH fight looks pathetic compared to the other duels is because by that time, Obi-wan is out of shape and hasn't trained for 20 years, unlike both Dooku and Yoda. He can't perfect his skills without triggering a disturbance in the Force which would alert both Vader and the Emperor of his presence.
As for Vader, both his arms and his lower torso are now cybernetic and it's impossible for him to be as agile as he was when his organic body was intact without worring about detaching what's left of it from his robotic limbs which is why both Vader and Obi-wan fight the way they do.
As for Vader, both his arms and his lower torso are now cybernetic and it's impossible for him to be as agile as he was when his organic body was intact without worring about detaching what's left of it from his robotic limbs which is why both Vader and Obi-wan fight the way they do.
Forcewielder this doesnt make any sense. Lucas is going to have Grievous doing all kinds of crazy, fast paced stuff and he is a robot. There is no reason why Vader couldnt fight flashy or fast.
What it really boils down to is that Lucas didnt have the technology available for it when the OT was made. Now that the PT looks very polished and the fights are good he is trying to convince everyone that Vader is crap compared to Anakin. Actually if you watch the OT without the PT you would get the impression that Vader is better than Anakin. Obi - Wan beat Anakin because eventhough Anakin joined the darkside and got new powers he was still a young jedi knight and inexperienced compared to kenobi. Anakin wasnt the mega powerful chosen one crap that he is now. So when Vader says in ANH that when I left you I was but the learner and now I am the master he really means it. At this point Vader is a Jedi Master and Kenobi doesnt stand a chance.
Weak dude. Its still totally weak. Yoda and the others could move when there was no physical explanation BECAUSE they used the FORCE to assist them in their moves, like when Luke does a front flip in ESB and a back flip onto that catwalk in ROTJ. Vader doesn't have to do flips, but he does need to move a bit faster than he currently does, you know why? another inconsistancy: General Grievous has established that droid parts fight as fast if not faster than organic parts. And that thing about Obi-wan not training is just ridiculous. Maybe his moves wouldn't be as clean as they once were, but they'd certainly be more adept than they currently appear. Firstly because he has the force, secondly because of muscle memory, after a life time of fighting, his muscles would still be able to move through old moves because of muscle memory. So basically, no amount of rationalization will ever excuse that terrible fight. Vader fights better in ESB and ROTJ and he's only toying with Luke. Like in ESB, when he comes down at Luke in that hallway and proceeds to beat him to the floor. His moves look stiff, as they should, but he's still pretty damn fast. So if he's just toying with Luke, why doesn't he fight HARDER against Obi-wan? He ain't toyin' with him, he wants REVENGE!!!!
EXACTLY! Doesn't that sound like: "ready for some payback BEEETOCH?!" I want to feel that S#$%!!!! I want a REAL fight, no BS rationalizing. Vader can fight, ala Greivous, Obi's old but still spent 33 years with the Jedi in training/actual combat. He's still gonna be one bad mother. I agree, it shouldn't be all Yoda vs Dooku, but it should still be a real fight!
I dont like Lucas using a weak Vader excuse as a way to explain the poor fighting in the OT. But I do like it as an excuse as to why he cant overthrow his master.
Okay, robo Vader doesn't necessarily have the power or agility of Anakin, but think about it.
If Grievous can move at Jedi speed without the force, it's possible that Vader (with the force) could have mechanical limbs like Grievous' They would make him physically stronger, and he could react at almost the same speed.
Now he doesn't twirl around much, and get into the dance of the fight like the other Jedi do, because he's mastered himself to the point where he moves only when he must.
Also, he's much physically stronger and tougher due to the mechanical enhancements. Luke clearly hits him with a saber in ESB, and it doesn't break through, it just pisses Vader off.
And yes, Vader seemed slow in the OT because that suit is bulky and Lucas didn't have the money or resources to make the much superior fights of the PT.
__________________ "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant, next to the power of the force."
bottom line is we will never really know, b/c we dont see him in action untill ANH and by then he is so intune with the force he doesn't need to move fast, thats one main point of a REAL fight is to inflict as much damage excerting the least amount of energy..he fights Luke with one hand most of the time in ESB
Grievous isn't 50% man/50% machine like Vader is, he's mostly a machine with a brain and spinal columm(like Kane the Robo-monster from Robocop 2) which is why he can perform the crazy, fast paced stuff while Vader cannot.
Apr 7th, 2005 08:02 AM
