If that's what you wanna call it then so be it. The fact is, he had barely enough time to react to Sidious's attack let alone dodge it. And age matters not (not implying you said it did, just stating).
No, he was too slow. He didn't have time to react because Sidious was faster than your vertebrae-unlimited prodigy.
In Cestus Deception, the author says Kit's unlimited by vertebral restraints. FACT.
The simple answer as to why Kit didn't display evidence of unlimited vertebrae restrictions in the movies is merely because the producers did not know this fact and/or it would be impossible to showcase his unique abilites given that it would take more time and money to do so. Just because we do not see Kit do such things as bend his back right back or breathe under water in the movies does not mean he cannot do so.
Okay, but the fact is that didn't help him against Sidious. And Kit isn't unstoppable because he has unlimited vertebrae. What's he going to do? Put his head into his ass during a duel to help him win?
Visually, Kit is the fastest Jedi in that scene. I assumed that because he was ahead of all the other Jedi, he was leading them. On the Wikipedia it once stated that Kit was one of four Jedi Generals in the arena (whom led Jedi into battle), but I know that Wikipedia cannot be trusted for canon evidence.
No. Mace was faster, Kenobi was and even the Padawan Anakin was quicker than what he displayed.
He isn't too fast. You see how slow he was in ROTS as he blocked Sidious' attacks? He sure as hell wasn't fast enough to block Sidious' final attack.
In my eyes, he was the fastest Jedi in the arena. If you OWN Cestus Deception you'd know for a fact that KIT IS UNLIMITED BY VERTEBRAE RESTRICTIONS.
Yeah, I just read it. Too bad he doesn't use it in the Cartoons, in AOTC, In ROTS or in his fight with the spider droid in the Cestus deception or with Asajj.
As I said, Kit was in shock when he was fighting Palpatine. He had hardly enough time to keep up with the Sith Lord's attacks let alone sense his weakness.. And yes, it would help him in a battle with Maul as then he'd be able to sense the second that Maul loses his confidence.
He wasn't in shock. He was blocking Sidious' attacks fine until Sidious OUTF*CKINGMANEUVERED him. He didn't have enough time because Sidious was quicker than he was. Get it yet?
Maul's weakness is his OVERCONFIDENCE. Kit would eventually discover this and then use it to his advantage, as he did whilst fighting the JK droid.
What makes you think his overconfidence wouldn't help him in a fight? Overconfidence isn't nessicarily a weakness. He killed one of the greatest Jedi in the order of their time. I'm guessing he isn't that weak. Nor was he weak when he tore apart the Black Sun and killed a Nightsister WHILE he was being shocked with Lightning.
I assumed that the inclusion of "tentacles" and "them" was reffering to his tentacles as a whole.
I said THEM. He wouldn't need to grab all of them to throw him to the ground.
And yes, I am quite the FISTO FAN (hence my sig).
What you should have said?
And yes, I am quite the FISTO FANBOY (hence my sig).
No, he was too slow. He didn't have time to react because Sidious was faster than your vertebrae-unlimited prodigy.
Slicing through someone's waist when they are in the middle of an attack does not necessarily make them faster. Kit's attack may have been a bit too slow, but that does not mean he is slower than Sidious.
Okay, but the fact is that didn't help him against Sidious. And Kit isn't unstoppable because he has unlimited vertebrae. What's he going to do? Put his head into his ass during a duel to help him win?
As I said, he had hardly enough time to react to Sidious's moves let alone dodge them. Also, it would have been hard for Kit to use his unlimited vertebrae ability because of the fact that he was in such a confined area and Mace was right beside him.
I never said he is unstoppable because of his unlimited vertebrae. What could he do? With unlimited Vertebrae, he could physically dodge Maul's attacks and strike in two and three places at once.
No. Mace was faster, Kenobi was and even the Padawan Anakin was quicker than what he displayed.
You obviously don't know what I'm talking about. I was reffering to a certain SCENE in the movie which shows us Kit in the LEAD of all (at least most) of the other Jedi (running in the arena). Only in my eyes was he the fastest in the ENTIRE arena, but in that certain scene it is rather obvious that he is the fastest.
He isn't too fast. You see how slow he was in ROTS as he blocked Sidious' attacks? He sure as hell wasn't fast enough to block Sidious' final attack.
SLOW? OMG!!! In my eyes, he was FASTER THAN FRIGGIN MACE!!! His moves flowed one after the other!!! And I've already explained it, he was in the middle of his own attack when Sidious hit him. There was no way he could have blocked his final attack in time.
Yeah, I just read it. Too bad he doesn't use it in the Cartoons, in AOTC, In ROTS or in his fight with the spider droid in the Cestus deception or with Asajj.
Umm… I’m fairly sure he did use it in his fight with the spider droid. Obi-Wan recalls him dodging the droids attacks effortlessly. We never know if he used it with Asajj because it hardly goes to any depth of explaining to us what happened in the fight. He may not have used it in Clone Wars, AOTC, or in ROTS because either he didn’t need to, the film makers had no idea he had this ability, or it would have been too costly and/or time consuming to add his unique abilties to the films.
He wasn't in shock. He was blocking Sidious' attacks fine until Sidious OUTF*CKINGMANEUVERED him. He didn't have enough time because Sidious was quicker than he was. Get it yet?
Sidious attacked Kit when he was in the middle of an attack. Now, If I were Kit, I’d be in shock after receiving such an unexpecting blow. And as I said, just because Sidious “outmaneuvered” kit does not necessarily make him any faster.
What makes you think his overconfidence wouldn't help him in a fight? Overconfidence isn't nessicarily a weakness. He killed one of the greatest Jedi in the order of their time. I'm guessing he isn't that weak. Nor was he weak when he tore apart the Black Sun and killed a Nightsister WHILE he was being shocked with Lightning.
Well It just so happens that it was his OVERCONFIDENCE that led to his own death. And I never said Maul was weak.
I said THEM. He wouldn't need to grab all of them to throw him to the ground.
Fair enough. However, I still highly doubt he could grab Kit's tentacles in time.
And if you have any doubts about Kit's speed, look at this!
Kit somehow manages to move his body a meter to the right whilst swinging on the ground in what appears to be one spot! Between these two scenes is a very short shot of Mace and Sids hitting blades together.
Of course, this could also be the result of terrible camera work.. or, perhaps it is a suggestion that a longer fight was meant to take place? Maybe there was, but it was cut out to shorten the film's length....
Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
eh Medvock? These guys are the titans from all time. I know you've rarely strayed from the PT era, but it's true these guys curbstomp him.
I'll take your word for it then. It's true, I rarely know anything about any of those EU characters... kinda sad really...
Also, just wondering, where was it that you saw my Kit Fisto Survived thread? Gamespot? IGN? Just curious.
Slicing through someone's waist when they are in the middle of an attack does not necessarily make them faster. Kit's attack may have been a bit too slow, but that does not mean he is slower than Sidious.
That makes Sidious much MUCH faster than Kit! He was able to bring him down during his attack attempt, dude.
Sidious was a far greater Lightsaber duelist than Kit.
As I said, he had hardly enough time to react to Sidious's moves let alone dodge them. Also, it would have been hard for Kit to use his unlimited vertebrae ability because of the fact that he was in such a confined area and Mace was right beside him.
I never said he is unstoppable because of his unlimited vertebrae. What could he do? With unlimited Vertebrae, he could physically dodge Maul's attacks and strike in two and three places at once.
Um . . . Mace's Form is supposed to be use in largely opened areas and he managed to survive in the small space. That's a lame excuse for Kit's reason of loss.
He had no time to react because he had just gotten his waist slashed because Sidious managed to be quick enough to catch him in the middle of a maneuver.
Two and three places at once? From what? Bending his body forward? Please. Maul would knock him in his little ugly face.
You obviously don't know what I'm talking about. I was reffering to a certain SCENE in the movie which shows us Kit in the LEAD of all (at least most) of the other Jedi (running in the arena). Only in my eyes was he the fastest in the ENTIRE arena, but in that certain scene it is rather obvious that he is the fastest.
What the hell? Dude, he was a Jedi Master like the rest of them. Agen, Sassee, Plo, Mace . . . They were all on the Council and probably more I forgot to mention that were all on the Council with him. He was nothing special compared to them. He wasn't leading anything into battle. They just happened to show him running into the midst of the Arena first.
SLOW? OMG!!! In my eyes, he was FASTER THAN FRIGGIN MACE!!! His moves flowed one after the other!!! And I've already explained it, he was in the middle of his own attack when Sidious hit him. There was no way he could have blocked his final attack in time.
He could have blocked it . . . If he was a superior duelist to Sidious!
Lol . . . He got killed because he lacked the skill to block Sidious' Saber. This excuse that "He couldn't have blocked it! There was no time!"
He could have blocked it if he was a better swordsman. I guess Maul, Sidious, Dooku, Anakin and Grievous all lost only because they didn't have time to block their opponents movements.
By the way, the two are going fist to fist in Tatooine. Tatooine has blistering heat and the Nautolans are an aquatic alien. Maul was all around Tatooine in his day. He's used to it. Maul also has the terrain advantage here as well.
Originally posted by MEDVOCK
[b]What you should have said?quote:
And yes, I am quite the FISTO FANBOY (hence my sig).I prefer to call myself a FISTO FAN, as it refers to my site's title, FISTO FAN. [/B]
Yeah, And Lightsnake's just a Sidious fan.
Please . . . You've got Fanboy written all over you. Case closed.
That makes Sidious much MUCH faster than Kit! He was able to bring him down during his attack attempt, dude.
Sidious was a far greater Lightsaber duelist than Kit.
I don’t see how this is so. Just because he took Kit down during his own attack attempt does not make him any faster. If you are going by how fast the final moves were performed; yes, Sids’s move was faster. This does not at all mean that Sids is faster than Kit. It is quite clear that Kit’s move had been slower in order for him to build up more power and thusly strike Sids with more force.
Of course Sids was a greater duelist than kit!! I never said he wasn't!
But realistically speaking, Kit would PWN Sids, coz he’s played by Ben Cooke (sp?).
Um . . . Mace's Form is supposed to be use in largely opened areas and he managed to survive in the small space. That's a lame excuse for Kit's reason of loss.
It is? I didn’t know that! And I’m fairly sure this is not true. Even if it is, Mace had barely started channeling Palps anger back at him in the beginning of the duel and thus his vaapad had not yet reached its highest peak (although it did later on). He was merely blocking Sids moves at the time.
Lame excuse? I don’t think so. Kit’s unlimited vertebrae restrictions would probably require more space to perform than Mace’s Vaapad. You must remember that three sabers were swinging around at the time; if Kit attempted to dodge Sids saber he may have been sliced by Mace’s!
He had no time to react because he had just gotten his waist slashed because Sidious managed to be quick enough to catch him in the middle of a maneuver.
Yep.
Two and three places at once? From what? Bending his body forward? Please. Maul would knock him in his little ugly face.
It states this specifically in Cestus Deception. He was able to strike his foes by moving in two and three directions at once. Ugly face? Whoah! Let’s not go too far into that, but Maul ain’t that beautiful either…
What the hell? Dude, he was a Jedi Master like the rest of them. Agen, Sassee, Plo, Mace . . . They were all on the Council and probably more I forgot to mention that were all on the Council with him. He was nothing special compared to them. He wasn't leading anything into battle. They just happened to show him running into the midst of the Arena first.
All the Jedi are special! Saesee has the ability to read minds and is an excellent pilot, Plo Koon is a cunning duelist and arguably one of the best force wielders in the Order, Mace is a formidable if not the most powerful combatant in the Jedi Order, and Kit can sense emotion, breathe under water, and is unlimited by vertebrae restraints. All of the Jedi are special in their own unique ways; no one is more “special” than the other.
In the arena, he was in the lead, thus I refer to him as “leading” the other Jedi.
He could have blocked it . . . If he was a superior duelist to Sidious!
Lol . . . He got killed because he lacked the skill to block Sidious' Saber. This excuse that "He couldn't have blocked it! There was no time!"
Actually, he couldn’t have blocked it. There was no time. Seriously, he was in the middle OF A FRIGGIN ATTACK. He had just spun himself round 360 degrees! HE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO TIME TO REACT TO SIDIOUS’S BLADE. What the hell would you do? What the hell could you have done?
He could have blocked it if he was a better swordsman. I guess Maul, Sidious, Dooku, Anakin and Grievous all lost only because they didn't have time to block their opponents movements.
Read above. Kit was actually doing fine against sids until he “outmaneuvered” him. Dooku, Anakin, Sidious and Grievous really had no chance; they couldn’t block the enemy’s final move. Maul, however, had he been paying attention may have been able to swing his saber around to block Obi-Wan’s move, but due to his over confidence, he was unable to react in time.
By the way, the two are going fist to fist in Tatooine. Tatooine has blistering heat and the Nautolans are an aquatic alien. Maul was all around Tatooine in his day. He's used to it. Maul also has the terrain advantage here as well.
Nautolan’s, like humans, are unaffected by heat to a large degree. You must recall that Glee Anselm, Kit’s home planet, is home to some of the harshest and roughest terrain in the galaxy, albeit very scarce; thus it was said to bring out the most strongest of warriors. The large area in which Kit is able to occupy in the desert would enable him to use his abilities to the best of their advantage. I’d say Kit has the terrain advantage here.
Yeah, And Lightsnake's just a Sidious fan.
Please . . . You've got Fanboy written all over you. Case closed.
I honestly don’t mind being called a “fanboy”, but I prefer FISTO FAN as it refers to my site name.
I don’t see how this is so. Just because he took Kit down during his own attack attempt does not make him any faster. If you are going by how fast the final moves were performed; yes, Sids’s move was faster. This does not at all mean that Sids is faster than Kit. It is quite clear that Kit’s move had been slower in order for him to build up more power and thusly strike Sids with more force.
You're trolling me with continuos excuses that just make you look silly, son.
Sidious' didn't have to parry his attacks or outmaneuver him. He managed to be quick enough to get him in the middle of his own attack. He was quicker and more skilled than Kit. Bottom line. Kit stood no chance.
But realistically speaking, Kit would PWN Sids, coz he’s played by Ben Cooke (sp?).
It's a shame reality plays no part in this debate.
It is? I didn’t know that! And I’m fairly sure this is not true. Even if it is, Mace had barely started channeling Palps anger back at him in the beginning of the duel and thus his vaapad had not yet reached its highest peak (although it did later on). He was merely blocking Sids moves at the time.
Lame excuse? I don’t think so. Kit’s unlimited vertebrae restrictions would probably require more space to perform than Mace’s Vaapad. You must remember that three sabers were swinging around at the time; if Kit attempted to dodge Sids saber he may have been sliced by Mace’s!
You continously miss the f*cking POINT! Mace was also jammed in the hallway. So was Palpatine and they all managed to survive! Kit? He wasn't good enough. He should have been good enough to use a Lightsaber without his unlimited vertebrae talent. If he wasn't, then he would not survive. And he didn't.
It states this specifically in Cestus Deception. He was able to strike his foes by moving in two and three directions at once. Ugly face? Whoah! Let’s not go too far into that, but Maul ain’t that beautiful either…
So, he could put one arm left and one arm right at the same time because of unlimited vertebrae? Nope. He could probably dodge attacks easier but that's about it.
What the hell? Dude, he was a Jedi Master like the rest of them. Agen, Sassee, Plo, Mace . . . They were all on the Council and probably more I forgot to mention that were all on the Council with him. He was nothing special compared to them. He wasn't leading anything into battle. They just happened to show him running into the midst of the Arena first.
All the Jedi are special! Saesee has the ability to read minds and is an excellent pilot, Plo Koon is a cunning duelist and arguably one of the best force wielders in the Order, Mace is a formidable if not the most powerful combatant in the Jedi Order, and Kit can sense emotion, breathe under water, and is unlimited by vertebrae restraints. All of the Jedi are special in their own unique ways; no one is more “special” than the other.
In the arena, he was in the lead, thus I refer to him as “leading” the other Jedi.
And . . . You're sorely incorrect.
Plo Koon the greatest Force user in the Order? HA HA HA HA!
Yoda and Mace had surpassed Kit, Plo, Sassee and Agen completely. So some Jedi are more special than the other, seeing as Yoda and Mace were more powerful than the rest.
Actually, he couldn’t have blocked it. There was no time. Seriously, he was in the middle OF A FRIGGIN ATTACK. He had just spun himself round 360 degrees! HE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO TIME TO REACT TO SIDIOUS’S BLADE. What the hell would you do? What the hell could you have done?
If he was so fast, why didn't he spin faster? If he was so fast, why didn't he just put his Lightsaber down when he was facing Sidious to parry his attack? Sidious was quicker and his speed managed to topple over Fisto's. That's why Fisto died and Sidious didn't.
Read above. Kit was actually doing fine against sids until he “outmaneuvered” him. Dooku, Anakin, Sidious and Grievous really had no chance; they couldn’t block the enemy’s final move. Maul, however, had he been paying attention may have been able to swing his saber around to block Obi-Wan’s move, but due to his over confidence, he was unable to react in time.Yeah and Dooku, Anakin, Sidious and Grievous were doing fine against their opponents UNTIL THEY WERE OUTMANEUVERED!
[quote]Nautolan’s, like humans, are unaffected by heat to a large degree. You must recall that Glee Anselm, Kit’s home planet, is home to some of the harshest and roughest terrain in the galaxy, albeit very scarce; thus it was said to bring out the most strongest of warriors. The large area in which Kit is able to occupy in the desert would enable him to use his abilities to the best of their advantage. I’d say Kit has the terrain advantage here.
The planet is a complete Water planet. The species spent their time underwater and their weather conditions consisted of storms and hurricanes.
Maul HAS the terrain advantage.
I honestly don’t mind being called a “fanboy”, but I prefer FISTO FAN as it refers to my site name.
Fistofanboy? Wha'?
You're trolling me with continuos excuses that just make you look silly, son.
I don't really give a damn. At least my excuses are factual.
Sidious' didn't have to parry his attacks or outmaneuver him. He managed to be quick enough to get him in the middle of his own attack. He was quicker and more skilled than Kit. Bottom line. Kit stood no chance.
I fail to understand how striking someone in the middle of their own attack makes them faster. I’m not saying Sidious is not more quicker or skilled than Kit, I’m just saying that striking someone in the middle of their own attack attempt does not make them faster. If Kit used one of his quicker moves on Sidious, would that make him overall faster? It is true; Kit’s finishing move was much slower than Sidious’s. However, this does not make him slower overall.
It's a shame reality plays no part in this debate.
Bloody Oath.
You continously miss the f*cking POINT! Mace was also jammed in the hallway. So was Palpatine and they all managed to survive! Kit? He wasn't good enough. He should have been good enough to use a Lightsaber without his unlimited vertebrae talent. If he wasn't, then he would not survive. And he didn't.
Personally, I thought Kit did very well given the short amount of space he had. In fact, I believe if it wasn’t for that singular swipe move Sids used on him during his attack, he would have lasted much longer. Many would argue that Sids was holding back on Mace in order to make sure he lasted long enough for Anakin to see Mace pointing a saber to his head. In order for Sids to do this, he would have needed to dispose of Kit quickly. Now I’m not saying that Sids is far more powerful than Mace, I’m only stating a theory. Anyway, the point is, as much as I like Kit, HE WAS NOT MEANT TO SURVIVE (at least not in the storyline for ROTS... I think he survived though). Perhaps if GL did the PT first, he would have.
So, he could put one arm left and one arm right at the same time because of unlimited vertebrae? Nope. He could probably dodge attacks easier but that's about it.
Yep. He could dodge moves MUCH easier. Thus, Maul stands next to no chance.
And . . . You're sorely incorrect.
Plo Koon the greatest Force user in the Order? HA HA HA HA!.
Yoda and Mace had surpassed Kit, Plo, Sassee and Agen completely. So some Jedi are more special than the other, seeing as Yoda and Mace were more powerful than the rest.
I never said Plo was the greatest force user in the order, I said he was arguably one of the most powerful force wielders in the order. Yoda and Mace may have surpassed Saesee, Plo, Kit, and Agen in power, but each Jedi has their own unique abilities that make them just as special as the other. Can Mace breathe under water? Is he telepathic? Does Yoda have unlimited vertebrae?(??) No. Thus, each Jedi is special.
If he was so fast, why didn't he spin faster? If he was so fast, why didn't he just put his Lightsaber down when he was facing Sidious to parry his attack? Sidious was quicker and his speed managed to topple over Fisto's. That's why Fisto died and Sidious didn't.
During the time, Sidious was already occupied with Mace. Kit thought he had plenty of time to perform his finishing move and thus is why his move was slower. It just so happens that Sidious caught him off guard. This does not make sidious faster. His move may have been faster than Kit’s but that doesn’t mean he is faster overall. Keep in mind that Kit's move consisted of a full 360 degree spin, whereas Sids was just a swing of the arm.
The planet is a complete Water planet. The species spent their time underwater and their weather conditions consisted of storms and hurricanes.
No it isn’t. In Cestus Deception it describes the scarce land on Glee Anselm as harsh terrain which was said to bring up the most powerful of warriors. I suggest you read the book again.
You are right about the weather conditions on Glee Anselm. The ocean did consist of storms and hurricanes; some of the roughest in the galaxy in fact. However, those whom dared become a worthy warrior spent a lot of their time above the surface of the ocean and on the harsh land.
Maul HAS the terrain advantage.
I honestly don’t see how this is so. What’s he gonna do? Use his Tatooine knowledge to navigate his way to Kit? Use the mountains to his advantage? They are both pretty much equal. And even if Maul had been more use to the terrain on the planet, it would not be that hard to get use to; it ain’t that complicated. And as I said, Nautolan’s, like humans, are unaffected by heat to a large degree. Thus could be why Kit didn’t sizzle up like a shrimp on Geonosis.
Fistofanboy? Wha'?
What the heck are you on about?