Have you ever seen Cap outwrestling Spider? Venom is not only matches Carnage in fight but outfights him or holds him with brute strength so yes he was equel in strength and Venom was never class 11, don't trust directories. Even Spider-man could lift more than that before and Venom was always much stronger than him.
You forget, symbionts can heal rapidly. After getting tons of beatings from Carnage, Venom eventually escaped and stayed absent from fighting for two issues. I would think that Venom had enough time to recover. Carnage, on the other hand, was mentally damaged from Deathlok's machine. There's a huge difference between mental damage and physical damage. And I never said his trauma effected his speed or strength. I said it effected his focus.
__________________
Last edited by Phoenix2001 on Aug 25th, 2006 at 03:02 PM
All of these images, except for the first two or so, are from scenes of the last Maximum Carnage issue. Clearly, if you read the damn comic, Venom has the advantage as Carnage is not fully coordinated. This does not prove anything except that Venom will take the advantage of beating down a degraded Carnage.
Pay attention to this picture again http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...;postid=6643151
I dunno how much time he had to recover after hours of torture with sonics and fire but when he started fighting Carnage he clearly was barely standing. So it still was a fair fight. And other pictures are from Venom on trial. Venom clearly won that fight and it was fair too. In Carnage unlished they had a tie and in Venom and Carnage Venom won again, so i still say they were pretty equel then and Venom was victorious even more often and now after upgrade he is stronger.
People are just got used to directories where it's said Carnage is stronger than both combined but they clearly havn't updated their directories since Carnage's first appearance.
Perhaps you should pay more attention to the last page of that issue. Venom was too eager of his survival. Obviously he wasn't hurt too bad. Remember, symiboites can heal rapidly. Besides, Venom was fine and dandy in the next issue. There was absolutely no references of him being weakened by Carnage's torture on him.
__________________
Last edited by Phoenix2001 on Aug 25th, 2006 at 11:24 PM
Symbiotes heal instantly but not from sonics and fire, it takes them some time and Venom was tortured for hours. And when Carnage appeared Venom clearly was weak. Here is what happened after Venom fell on the ground. Look, he is still weak, i won't believe that he was weak for hours and then healed instantly in one moment. Besides it didn't seemed that Carnage had much trouble with focusing as well. And why sticking to maximum Carnage only? Venom still wins more often.
So after all that Venom did on the next issue, you're basing Venom's suppose weakened state all on one stumble? He sure didn't have much of a problem keeping his balance while going after Carnage, and throwing a few jabs at Spider-Man everytime he intervened, now did he? I'm not sure what you saw, but Carnage had a difficult time trying to fight off Venom while also trying to keep himself mentally stable (even if the word stable is stretching it a bit for someone like Kletus Cassidy). I'm not sticking to maximum Carnage. The majority of the images you presented in the forum are scenes from Maximum Carnage. Besides the Venom on trial and Maximum Carnage, show us scenes from other comics that depict Venom dominating the battle field over Carnage.
Do you want every friggin time they encountered then? Carnage has beaten Venom approx. zero times Carnage was better on their first encounter. Every other time he has been beaten except for Venom Carnage which was one of the most poorly written series ever. Venom has beaten down carnage more then once in Maximum carnage series as well Carnage won because of shriek and all the others. Before Venom's upgrade Carnage might have been able to pick up more with upgrade no he can't. Venom is more powerful now
__________________ I've got a Charisma of 23, max ranks and skill focus in Seduction, and I just rolled a 17. Are we doing it yet?
I asked for Sam Z, or anyone else for that matter, to post a few scenes from various other titles of Venom defeating Carnage in a fair fight. But if Sam Z, or you, can present every encounter then that would be much better.
I think you are giving Venom too much credit. Venom had only overpowered Carnage once in Maximum Carnage, and Venom had a clear advantage over him. Any other encounter they had before then, Carnage was dominating Venom, whether Carnage's goons were involved or not. And on that note, the few times that Carnage was at the mercy of Venom was because of Firestar who first blasted off the symbiote with a beam of fire, and then almost killed him with a second beam. I would expect Venom III to now be the strongest version of Venom, but due to Carnage's absence in the last few years, there really shouldn't be any comparison between the two because nobody knows about the current activities, if any, about the Venom spawn.
Yes, i do believe that Venom was weak since even after some time past after the torture he was weak as we see in that scan, so i don't believe that after hours of being weak he instantly healed in a moment. So he was weak and Carnage as much as his mind was damaged was pretty concentrated on Venom, he was running away, yes. But when he tried to attack several times his mind was clear.
As for scans, here you go.
Carnage unleashed, this is not really a fight, because they are fighting through the net with their tendrils. Tie.
Attachment: unleashed 1.jpg
This has been downloaded 135 time(s).
So basicly the ONLY time Carnage dominated over Venom was in Savage alliance, in his first appearance and since then people got used to that "stronger than both combined" thing, that's what majority thinks now about Toxin, that he is stronger than both Carnage and Venom combined, and that's false as well.
Attachment: trial.jpg
This has been downloaded 217 time(s).
Ankur, don't trust directories. Majority say that Venom is class11, i recently found site where it's said Carnage is class 80, so you see. And Toxin was beaten by Venom and Carnage and survived only thanks to spider-man and black cat so he is not stronger.
Gender: Male Location: United States
Athens, Georgia
just cuz someone beats someone, dont make them stronger. better fighter maybe, but not stronger. someone might bench 200 while someone else benches 150. the 150 might kick the 200's ass, yet he aint stronger
Gender: Male Location: A Pit filled with Green Bubbles. :O
I think for this to be resolved, we must go back and look at the old school cartoon, where clearly carnage kicked venom and spiderman's ass all over, but spiderman and venom together beat him. So.. Venom vs Carnage in a straight fight, Carnage would win because Venom too emo.
__________________
"Where does he get those wonderful toys? " -- Joker
When ever Venom and Carnage fight Venom always wins, but it's not because he's stonger, It's because in any issue when they fight Venom is the hero (or anti-hero) and Carnage is the villain, and the hero always finds a way to win. So Carnage is stronger but will never stand victorious because of what he is and that is a villain!!!!
KMC Community Forums
Aug 25th, 2006 02:12 PM
Attachment: 
