I love talking like this because it changes your perspective so much. it makes you think, and you find a way to express your opinion in a descriptive manner.
And Bardock, I have also come to your conclusion as well. Who are we to say the world would be better if War World II had never happened? Maybe there would be smaller, more frequent wars if this had never happened and shown the true terror of prolonged war. And taught us about what it really was.
Maybe the Holocaust was a blessing in disguise. A gruesome disguise no matter.
If your mother was murdered would have the same opinion. Or anybody you care about. If they died would you just take with a grain of salt believing in your heart it was somebody else's personal mission.
Was it any Nazi's personal mission to pack children into a gas chamber? I'm sorry, but I completely disagree what you just said. As interesting and thought provoking as it is.
If it is our personal mission, than who am I supposed to kill? And what about you? Who are you supposed to kill? Every on this earth is somebody's baby. Somebody's rock, or somebody's loved one. And how can you find it in yourself to take that away from them?
I can't find any "deep message" in murder. It's an action, it's a crime. What about the golden rule inscribed in the bible, "Do unto others, as you wish to be done unto you."
If you are a true German what is evil about it? If Aryans really are better then all those that are not, if they really are a superior race then what's evil about it? If they kill creatures that have no soul and that God wishes to die then what's so wrong about that?
No you can state a million things wrong with it, but the fact of the matter remains that they had different views. And that is not evil, that is a conflict of interest and opinion. And unless different opinions (especially the one's very different from yours) are evil, then you can't consider this evil.
Murdering a murderer on the loose? Bad? Good, Evil, wrong, right?
A murder almost always has a purpose, that purpose might be considered a delusional purpose by most people here including in most cases myself, but it still has a purpose. The person that kills finds this particular purpose more important then the life of the person that is going to die. Making it justified in his or her own according to most people warped view.
The views of the majority in a democratic country decide what laws should be followed and how things should work. They don't decide what's right and wrong for individual people or country's outside of their own.
Well I'm sure there are people out there that would consider all Germans evil. And there will be people out there that will consider all non Germans evil...
But where does it stop? How many crazy dictators must we allow to attempt genocide before humanity realizes that it's bad? There has to be an end. Besides, no one learns they're history anyways. Hitler himself followed Napoleon's clumsy and failed march into Russia. Why are we in Iraq when we should have learned from the millions of other guerilla wars before (including Vietnam) that you can't win against guerillas?
We should never allow anything to happen that we don't support if we have the power to stop it. The western nations mostly agree that genocide is a bad thing, therefor they should do whatever is in their power to stop it from happening. At least if they consider it a worthy cause. Which they ussually will because Genocide is just considered as pure evil.
But now imagine that you are a Muslim/Christian in Africa. Your government is run by the other side and gives all the jobs to the other religion. Your neighbors have had the exact same problem and through a little war they got the power. You can get the weapons no problem so what do you do? You do the exact same thing. Now you have been brought up to hate the other side since you were born because they never even cared about you, and you were considered as nothing.
Killing them all would then be very easy, and not only that probably the only way to achieve what you really want, and what all your fellow oppressed people would want. And before you know it, you have a war were both sides try to destroy the other side completely. Genocide or just logical thinking and a necessity in order to make the country and yourself survive?
After all they just don't have the money to make both people happy.
A class of cultures is already happening in rich western country's and we are having a hard time dealing with it. Poor other country's that don't have the resources the power or the money that we have should have a far more difficult time. Genocide is a possible answer to those problems they are having.
First off, next time I'd appreciate it if you read the quote so you'd know the context I was using. Read the quote and then reread what I said so you know I was actually saying, because your post has nothing to do with mine. Second, if you are saying that genocide is good because it allows support for the group that committed the genocide, then I am going to have to disagree with you.
1. In context of Hitler, who this thread is actually about, Germany had more than enough resources to "support" the Jewish population.
2. Did you consider that a person might choose to live without as much money when faced with death?
I still don't really get your point, we should learn from the past? Well duh, of course we should and lots of people have. But Hitler obviously had different idea's on the past then most today. Hindsight is always so easy.
Second, I am not saying genocide is justified because it helps the group that committed it, I'm saying that it's good for them. And if you consider yourself or your group more important then anything else, then genocide is a pretty reasonable step to take. Or at least an understandable one.
Now as for the other points.
1.) Germany was shit poor, what Hitler did brought the country out of a depression and into a freaking world power, that could stand up against the 3 greatest powers in the world at that date and still hold on. It wasn't until all 3 united that they were screwed. I would say he sure as hell did something right. Besides what does it matter that they could support the Jews living there, what mattered is that they didn't want too, and that they would be in theory purer richer smarter and more powerful without them.
2.) Does what I consider even matter? The extermination of the Jews had many reasons. How easy they were to pick on was of course one of those reasons. Their great wealth another. Hitler had hoped to make the world a better place without the Jews. A better place for all Aryans. And perhaps the entire world. He justified genocide, simple as that.
For him for a lot of Germans the extermination of the Jews was seen as a good thing.
My previous point is this: No one cares about the past, or realizes that it has any significance today. I agree, it is a duh point. However, no one follows through on this important point.
On this post, I just have say that this thread is about Hitler being good or bad, not about military power. If exterminating the Jews helped Hitler conquer Europe, if that is your point, I would have to agree, however, it does nothing to rebutt my point.
Actually killing the Jews was a waste of time after he got power.
But your original point that we should learn from the past and because of that stop genocide is still wrong.
Genocide is only good or evil in the eye of the beholder and has been good and or evil plenty of times in the past depending on which side you were on. The killing of the Jews wasn't bad, killing Muslims/Christians/Whatever isn't necessarily bad either. It's just a point of view. It isn't right or wrong. So Hitler wasn't evil, and calling all genocide evil without first knowing the circumstances or the reasoning behind it is also a foolish thing to do.
I know why Hitler did it. I'm not dumb. He did it for the same reason an immature middle school student tells rumors behind somebodies to get other people to laugh at them: popularity. Even if you are right that genocide is ethically okay by the people who commit it, (which is dumb quite frankly) it did nothing to help Germany, only Hitler himself.
However, on the other point, you wouldn't want someone to kill you. That's why genocide is bad.
The net of happiness would be lower if you died because it would end all happiness you might have for the rest of your life, while slightly enhancing that of the killer. Assuming he got all of your wealth.
Not necessarily is right though. Killing the Jews limited Hitlers workforce.
KMC Community Forums
Dec 29th, 2006 10:58 PM
