I honestly don't care what Jurgens said. It's about as relevant as Stan Lee claiming Hulk could defeat Superman. I know what he wrote, and I know what Marvel published, and they published a comic in which the Odin Power connection was severed from Thor.
Which is irrelevent to your earlier post.
Again irrelevent and I half truth. You claimed Thor has only beaten Hulk once, I proved otherwise. irrelevent
You may not care what he said, but I would wager that the writer of a comic would know his intentions for his own comic better than you. Stan Lee claiming that Hulk could defeat Superman is his own speculation. Dan Jurgens saying that Thor had his odin-power during that fight isn't speculation, but a simple and absolute statement.
It is relevant insofar as Thor failed to get a victory in that issue. I'm guessing that since you place so much emphasis on on-panel text, you would believe Thor's admission that he could not prove that he was stronger conclusively.
You proved what? King Thor beating Hulk counts now? Those straws. Keep clutching.
That may be true, however what he claimed and what was published were two entirely different things. Just as he claimed Odin was only planetary in power although what he published and Odin's previous showings point otherwise.
What he said during the interview and what was published by Marvel are two separate things. He claimed Thor had the Odin Power, but it was made blatantly clear that his connection was severed mid fight. "The Odin Power is no longer yours". Pretty clear what Marvel was trying to get across.
What does questioning physical superiority have to do with having the upper hand in a fight?
No, that a non Odin Powered, Thor whom lost possession of Mjolnir defeated and killed Hulk. Also, that a Classic Thor clearly had the upper hand against him. There are more instances, but the one was only needed to prove you wrong.
Jurgens said that as a direct consequence of Odin's power being inconsistently portrayed, and he would be right, as every character has high/low showings. Odin is no exception. It does not matter what the odin-power is. The fact is that Thor was stated to have it. In fact, "he had to have it".
Even if Odin's power was planetary, can you quantify how much power that is? I certainly do not want to speculate there, but I am willing to bet that the power-up would be substantial enough to allow Thor to be disqualified from being classic Thor.
Because Thor was obviously not physically superior, and the fight was only ended by Thor being thrown into the wall. If Thor could not claim superiority, and Hulk was not knocked out, how does that constitute a victory?
Show me the other victories then, instead of using examples which you will not be able to pass off as classic Thor victories. As of now, you have King Thor and a stalemate.
However Odin's never been portrayed under planet level, so....
And he did have it. For a small portion of the battle at least. However what's printed in the pages of the comics and etched in the history of Marvel is the implication of Thor's connection to the Odin Power being severed.
But Odin's beyond planetary..... In fact he's destroyed planets like an hills in a battle with Forsung.
Which has no relevance to Thor having the upper hand against Hulk, which is obviously depicted in the above scans.
I don't have to, I don't wish to, it has no relevance to this thread. However if the situation requires it, I'll surely make you look foolish again.
Based on what Strange said? I reckon that writer > Strange.
Duh. I know what Odin has done, hence the "even if" portion. Once again, define planetary level, because I am willing to bet that it would be a significant power up still. Would the elders be below planetary level save Ego? I await your definition.
Which has no relevance at all, since no one lost in the scans, unless you think a cave collapsing would render the hulk unable to battle, when even the comic showed otherwise.
I'm pretty sure I have read all their battles. I welcome the opportunity to see you make a stand for selective interpretation once again.
Thor beat BRB horribly at that level. How this translates into BRB being able to replicate WMThor's feat is beyond me, considering that WMThor is 10x as strong.
Thats true. However BRB had no relevance to the discussion at that time.
Yes he did, along with Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, and a host of others. However they, along with BRB, had no relevance to the PG being beaten out of Drax.
Never said he could replicate Thor's feat, only that it's possible for a PG user to be overpowered.
The 10x as strong thing? Fluke. It was never stated.
Ego's power is planetary in nature. The other elders have never shown such power, save champion, who was the only one who destroyed a planet, and that was with PG. Unless your definition has space-faring beings as outside planetary level, which is pretty stupid. Yet, I bet at least a couple of the elders would take a majority against Thor. That kind of power-up isn't enough to invalidate classic Thor?
And that same writer stated after the comic was released that Thor had the Odin-power, I fail to see where the argument is.
Your scans from journey into mystery simply have a truncated battle. They in no way show a victor, seeing as the fight was physical, and Thor already stated that he could not claim superiority. If anything, Hulk traded blows, overpowered Thor and tossed him away. The collapse was simply luck in Thor's favour, and would never have stopped the hulk. You can argue otherwise, but I don't see how you can prove that.
You call a cave collapsing as the result of Thor being thrown into it an upper hand, and insinuate that the hulk would have taken a loss because of that? Carry on reaching.
Obviously I have not read that. Keep believing that. Hulk #300. I didn't know Hulk vs Thor included interruptions from other heroes, ending with a bfr by Strange.
Avengers3? Not Thor alone once again.
Fantastic 4#26? Not Thor alone.
Defenders#10? Both standing.
Sub-mariner #35? Hulk had upper hand = victory by your standards.
Hulk #255? I would call this a stalemate, but Thor stops fighting, and Hulk lifts mjolnir. Certainly counts as a victory by your standards.
Thor #385? Thor threw away mjolnir due to circumstances, and was beaten badly. Hate to say this, but that's a win for hulk by your standards.
Thor #498? Stalemate. I may give a slight advantage to Thor because hulk seemed to exert more than Thor, but not enough for a win.
Hulk #440? I'm pretty sure you were going to use this. Most respect threads for Thor cut off when Thor enters WM and hulk is hit by a bomb, but fail to state that hulk pretty much saved Thor by punching him away from the nuke's ground zero, and survived the nuke himself. Victory to hulk on a technicality.
Hulk annual 2001? Thor was knocked out.
Do the math.
Last edited by Ouallada on Dec 8th, 2007 at 02:45 AM
No relevance to the thread.... but sure, I'll allow you to continue to ramble on about nothingness.
That was after the comic released. When it was published, you know by Marvel, who possesses rights to all characters, Thor's connection to the Odin power was severed mid battle.
They show Thor with the upper hand, which in most cases would be considered a win.
Thor was winning before the cave collapsed..... he was winning the entire time. He had the upper hand, he won.
You keep posting your half truths, and I'll keep posting scans......
Those "ramblings" simply show you how difficult it is to quantify planetary level power. I can't be blamed for your inability to understand, but I symphathise.
Sure. Keep telling yourself that. When the person who has written the comic states his rationale behind the comic, do ignore it.
Thor traded blows with Hulk, got overpowered, and thrown into the cave wall. Enlarge the scans and look at them better. You obviously are looking at them wrong.
In most cases would equal a win? I would say selective reasoning. No matter. Hulk's wins have been listed for you.
Do you even know what comic those scans are from, or do you just use Souja's scans without reading the entire comic? If you use that, I would add two wins to the Hulk's tally instead of one. Thrown into mountain and did not emerge + knocked out at the end.
So we have King Thor (not classic Thor), Journey into mystery #112 (stalemate) and Hulk#300 (Other heroes and military involved = disqualified from counting) from you, all of which yield nothing. Insert your token. Try again.
Since you simply ignore the actuality that WM Thor was never stated to be 10x as strong as base level Thor I'll ask you to provide proof of your claims.
Looks like Hulk proved helpless against Thor's power. Another win for Thor..... thats 5.
You don't. You claimed Hulk had more wins than Thor in one on one match ups and have done nothing to support your claims. I on the other hand have posted 5 instances in which Thor's had the upper hand against Hulk at the end of a scuffle.
Last edited by Child Rebel on Dec 8th, 2007 at 03:19 AM
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