Yes because I have never shown that video before of Kain vs Moebius. Of course he was taking his sweet time, he was talking to moebius. Gorea? she shouldnt because it was not hardly moving her, slowly lifting up and down, but Kain? shes yet to prove she can remain fireing in one direction if someones throwing her around like a rag doll.
Youve posted a creature of unkown ability apprently failing to possess Samus, according to you this equels resistance to blood magic which is not reven related, lulz. Yes, lets just hold up a shield of metal, its bound to protect me against magic! such reaching...
Yes because the suits done that..oh wait no, its jsut recieved a telepathy message. My cellphone can recieve messages, therefore it can protect me from people shouting their message in my ear. Like I said, Kains not attempted possession yet.
Because as ice covers Kain it smashes. Or he just turns into mist form and the projectiles/missles dont even touch him. Metals that have alloys in them that are speciifcally vulnerable to heat are impressive to melt?
Hes only got two blood powers, neither look like that, e.g. his TK hand movement and blood flowing towards him. Although again, another claim, that Kains blood powers are seperate to TK.
Everything is slowed down and shes just diving to the side, theres no major speed or reactions there.
What sort of skill is that? skill of the person playing? thats not impressive at all....I was hoping for a cutscene or something, by that logic anyone in 2d games can do the same, ive seen robocop on the N64 iirc do the same sort of thing.
Has it detected dead bodies? also having a radar detection come up with Kains sword in your head is really useful! How is she going to get out of the way? shes in free fall from TK, hows she going to get out of the way? and again, she doesnt know when to move.
He's taking his sweet time, yes, so you've still got no case to say he can do it faster until you prove it. Heck, there's even a significant delay between throwing the staff and then picking up Moebius, that's basically the same as Gorea there. You've yet to prove Kain can throw anyone like a ragdoll, and yes that is what Gorea was doing there. Did you miss the part where is swung her to the sides, nearly 180 degrees around it? That about proves TK won't help Kain here.
I've posted a creature that's known to be able to pass between dimensions and control minds unable to penetrate Samus' suit. You still need to prove magic it can bypass an obstacle like that. "It's magic!" isn't good enough, you still need evidence.
It's more like headphones in that respect, since Samus seems able to choose whether to receive it telepathically or let the suit take it so she doesn't have to. Sends it right to voicemail, then. You're still ignoring Dark Samus failing to control her, too.
There is no "as it covers," it's all at once, at which point he's frozen for a while. I somehow doubt mist will save him from supercooled air. Yes, are you ignoring the size of those chunks? It's a good several square feet just evaporating. The suit considers lots of things vulnerable to heat when you can turn guys to ash in a second. Kain vulnerable to heat, too, so I still don't understand why you think it isn't impressive.
That's the point, they are separate so he can't use one like the other. He had blood powers long before he ever had TK. Where are the kinetic shackles or two TK targets at once? Still looking like the Power Bomb'll work.
If it's slowed down, that means Samus is actually moving faster. Given how suddenly most of these happen, they're all great reaction feats.
Wasn't sure what you were responding to, it looks like you skipped a point or two. Note that it's all happening at supersonic speed, so much faster than anything Kain could dream of doing.
It can track ghosts. Having radar detection means Samus knows as soon as Kain reappears and can react accordingly. She gets out of the way by Space Jump/Screw Attacking, duh. She knows when to move since she's got him on radar, duh. She'll be moving the whole time, too, I'm not sure why you expect her to stand in one spot and wait for Kain to teleport. Has he ever hit a fast moving target with the dimensional teleport?
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Last edited by The Scenario on Dec 2nd, 2011 at 03:48 AM
So you remembered it, now posted a video ive already shown you and think this means I have not provided evidence? THats called silly buggering. It takes less than a second to manipulate TK.....thats all I need as evidence from that vid to prove he can do it quickly and easily. Gorea moved Samus slowly from side to side, Kain can actually toss with his Tk.
You still need to provide a logical explanation why something that does not touch or get impeded by a surface of any kind would be stopped by a suit that has no magic resistance. And your reaching again, trying to change the words of your statements as if it makes them new again.
Ive yet to see Samus choose and quote the Dark Samus thing again. Size is pretty irrelevent when the game points out specifically their vulnerable to heat, at the moment their more vulnerable to heat than Kain is. Ive yet to see your proof for Kains "vulnerable" to heat, Kain burns just like a person but unlike the metal is not specifically vulnerable, hes just not immune either.
Prove this, show me blood powers before TK and then prove their completly different because even in BO2, Kain has TK, you know, the weakest form of Kain who had just been beaten senseless, even he remembers how to use TK there.
Looking at the radar, they disapear off it when they disapear, it seems they can go physical which is the only time they appear. Youve yet to prove she can react in less than a fraction of a second AND still have time to turn around or face wheever Kain is (which you belive she can tell and react to just because of radar) and attack before Kains slashed her in half, youve not prove any one of those things.
Samus is not fast moving though but more importantly, I just said he could toss her in the air, she has nothing to "run" or "move" when shes tossed in the air, after that she has less than a second to live.
I dont know what you think those scans prove since they dont give any real indication of time, we dont know how long those things threatened those people, only that Samus got in the middle before they finally fired. Samus even speaks beforehand so unless she speaks at supersonic speed I think she had plenty of time between one scan and the next even if all she did was a supersonic dash to get to them.
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K, I got bored, took you off ignore, and WAT IS THIS SHIT?
1. THE FLASH, you know, FTL guy, can talk while speeding around, your argument is invalid.
2.We're clearly shown the pirate's claw-gun-thing lighting up, and she's there before they can shoot, her companion didn't even see her move.
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don't forget that she was so fast when the lasers bounced off her, they didn't know it was her that the lasers hit. They had no idea why they bounced back because when they fired there was only a little girl standing there. lol... Samus is broken.
When the last time you posted that video? Honestly, I haven't seen you post it in over six months, that's more or less you refusing to provide evidence for a recent thread. The video shows several very significant pauses between each TK action, nearly all of them taking over a second, which is more than enough time for Samus to shoot him. I like how you try to downplay Gorea when Samus can still shoot things while being tossed like a ragdoll.
Here's a logical reason: it has magic resistance. What you actually need is a logical reason for magic to automatically bypass everything. "It's magic!" isn't a logical reason, by the way.
During the fight, you know when she receives that message but just reads it instead of letting it into her mind, most likely because that kind of thing would be distracting in a fight. All of page 1 and 2 consist of the Dark Samus thing, it's far too large to quote save that Dark Samus tried to control Samus and 3 other people (and the Space Pirates) and only Samus resisted. Size is not irrelevant when you're talking about mounds of solid metal being evaporated, and being specifically vulnerable to heat describes nearly all metals, and Kain is actually more vulnerable to heat than the metal is. Kain does not burn like a person, first of all. If you remember that vampires have a specific weakness to fire as well, and both Zephon and Dumah succumb to it despite both being immune to Raziel's claws. Even if Kain does burn "like a person" did you forget that Samus' Plasma Beam turns people to ash in less than a second?
That's the point; as soon as Kain reappears Samus will know exactly where if he's within range. Samus can track them even when they disappear with the X-Ray visor in any case. I've already proven Samus' reaction time is supersonic, that's much less than a fraction of a second and much, much faster than Kain. She doesn't have to turn around, she'll be moving before, during, and after his teleport. Heck, she'll be moving the whole fight, and all she needs to do to hit Kain if he's behind her is jump into a Screw Attack or simply Morph Ball so he misses. He can't cut her in half, either, she's faced worse.
Okay, seriously, are you just ignoring the Space Jump right now or do you not think it will help? Samus can pseudofly and still fire her weapons in mid air, this was proven on page 1. The Screw Attack surrounds her in a destructive energy field that cuts through metal and stone while Space Jumping; Kain has very little chance hitting her, let alone harming her during that.
They prove Samus is a heck of a lot faster than Kain. The indication of time is Samus moving hundreds of feet before the blasts hit the little girl, with no one, including her partners, even seeing her move. When are you talking about with Samus speaking? She only talks before the Space Pirates raise their weapons, and after they've fired, so I'm not sure what you're getting at with that?
Ive yet to see "magic" resistance and saying "theres a surface between Kain and what hes targeting!" is not a logical reason for non projectiles to work.
Samus' weapons melt metal thats specially vulnerable as per the game to heat. Their top feat I have seen is melting tin, which has melting point apprently not much higher than human skin anyway.
Both of those things are short range, Kain cant drink blood at any longer a distance than a meter or so....he can drink further in Defiance, which relates to how his Tk is stronger now.
She wont know anything, her brain does not work in milliseconds or fractions there of, her radar has not shown to be able to create that target, her react to it when she cant see it herself. Shes going to according to you track Kain all of a sudden, react to the radar, turn, react to Kain and avoid/attack while in mid-air before Kains blade which takes fractions of a second to come down.....your going to need a shit ton of proof.
It was proven that if Samus jumps of her own regard she can attack/fire etc, I can also attack while jumping but if someone knocked me off my feet I would not necesserily be able to, Samus has only shown capable of attacking while in the air and space jumping is not flight.
Prove this. Prove she moved hundreds of feet, your making it sound like the weapons fired and she reached the little girl before the lasers did. Theres nothing stateing that in that scan at all.
Then please counter it again, from here it seems you're just dismissing it on questionable grounds. Gorea threw Samus like a ragdoll and she could still shoot him, and you have not yet proven that Kain could throw her continuously.
Beyond the possessions, ghosts, inter-dimensional attacks, and Bryyonian magic attacks? You still need a logical reason for anything simply bypassing an obstacle.
Vampires are specifically vulnerable to heat, and that still does not changes the fact that she is melting several meters of the stuff. She turns people to ash, Kain has no resistance to this.
Missed the point. They're separate abilities and Kain couldn't drink from longer distances after gaining it in Blood Omen 2.
Her reactions are supersonic, so yes she will and yes it does. No, you're doing it wrong: Samus is going to see Kain disappear, then immediately get the heck away from where she was, then pick up his reappearance on radar, turn and shoot him. This all assumes he can even use the dimensional teleport, though.
Samus was attacking while Gorea threw her, try again. Space Jumping is still mid air movement so she isn't in free fall, and she can shoot Kain in mid air.
Except for the scan itself. You can see from the panel right before they shoot that Samus isn't there yet, and as soon as they do there she is. She moved so quickly that no one saw her, including her own allies.
Show me Bryyonian magic attacks, do they have non projectile powers like Kain does that randomly do not work on Samus? I have one, said obstacle is a material piece of metal and the oppressor does not travel or such said material.
Vampires burn and can die in heat, they fear flame, just like we all do, the metal however is speciifcally vulnerable.
You did not prove they were different or seperate in any way, both of Kians BO2 methods use supernatural forces to move blocks, weapons from the ground or blood.
not seen supersonic reactions yet. Theres no immediatly, before she even has any idea whats going on his blade is scything through her like butter and your ignoring the Tk bit again.
UNkown time for her to get there, she jumped in front of the girl, its no wonder no one saw her, look at the smoke....
And that matters how? Everything is vulnerable to heat past a certain point. Iron melts just as easily as tin in such conditions. You've yet to prove that Kain can resist being turned to ash like all the other people Samus shoots with it.
Kain could not use Telekinesis before Blood Omen 2, but he could still manipulate blood. That proves they are separate abilities.
I showed you already, though. It's on page 2 with all the others, you know the one with Samus shooting around at supersonic speeds? As soon as Kain disappears Samus is going to be in a different spot, what is so hard about this? Heck, she'll be in a different spot before he disappears since she'll be moving constantly. Can Kain use TK and dimensional teleport at the same time? You're ignoring that it won't bother Samus all that much.
She was there between them firing and hitting. Did you miss the part where her ally didn't see her move the whole distance?
Watched it 3 times for good measure, still no "ragdoll" effect.
Thought so, projectiles. Actually objects trying to get through the suit, thats not defence at all, this is all solid vs solid. kains magic in this case does not even phase through anything though although I would like to see this happening in a cutscene, Chozo ghosts if thats what you were showing me earlier look like they can become just as physical as anything. erm, why do I need to prove this? your just making things up, maybe you can prove her weapons will work on a vampire.
Well no, thats not vulnerability tbh, thats simply a physical eventuality, but if someones specifically vulnerable to heat to the point where the suit outlines it as such then its clearly far more vulnerable than the walls around it. Its almost like your claiming "turn to ash" is its specific power, its just heat which is at best capable of melting tin. Also you place too much effort into trying to use how things a disposed of in a game, by your logic the canon of Modern warfare and battlefield games has humans in their universe that disintegrate, disapear or w/e when they die, when really its just a quick way of removing bodies so the game does not lag. Same thing here imo.
That is TK, he goes from being able to move things with his will alone, to being able to do so at "great distances".
"shooting around at supersonic speeds", no...dont recall that one...what do you mean at the same time? all Kain has to do is use TK first, nothing Samus can do while shes tossed into the air and Kain teleports, Samus is dead....youve yet to show anything of her doing all these things while falling and somehow having precog to react to Kain.
Theres no proof of that...only that she was there before they evenutally fired, theres no real time comparison or frame between one scan and the other, considering the pirates were jeering and talking your assuming too much to belive she raced across that distance and got in front of the girl just as the weapon fired, the scan does not show that at all. Also yes, I did miss it, what ally? no ally says they did not see her although as I said, smoke.
The point I was trying to prove is that Samus isn't overly affected by being thrown around. Essentially, the video proves that Samus doesn't ragdoll. Kain isn't going to be very different from Gorea throwing her, so Samus is unlikely to ragdoll in his TK, either.
I'm just saying, it's your claim that blood shower works through obstacles, or doesn't phase through anything, so I think you should prove it. I mean, it doesn't have any actual feats, does it? If it only worked on normal humans there is a reasonable doubt it would work all that well on genetically engineered Chozo/Human/Metroid Hybrid, in addition to to the suit's protection. I'm not sure why a Chozo Ghost would make solid attacks, and there aren't any in cutscenes in any case. Or did you mean Ing? We already know vampires are vulnerable to fire, so I'd say it's already proven Samus can kill them. Heck, she kills ghosts.
I see no reason for physical eventuality to not also be a weakness, especially when we have evidence that shows vampires to be extremely weak to fire, even if their durability to claws is good. And we still know it one-shots Kain thanks to Magnus. The metal being vulnerable too is hardly conclusive, either, especially given the Plasma Beam's other effects. However, suggesting that it's just a way of disposing of the corpses is wrong. With the common example being a Space Pirate, here's how they are affected by Samus' various beams:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbIds23DWMw#t=1m36s (The Power Beam and missiles. Note how they just fall back or collapse, then simply fade after a while. In particular, note that they die first, then fade. This is the normal fade out for dead enemies.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfCgVGh8cy4#t=4m (Flying Pirate, but same difference. This is the first time a beam has a different death effect, by making them shatter into little frozen chunks that then disappear. You wouldn't say that is only getting rid of the corpse, would you?)
The prefix "tele-" means distance, with telekinesis meaning something akin to "distant movement" or synonyms thereof. If Kain can only do it up close there is no distance, hence it being K instead of TK. Which was the joke, gosh. The point is that initially, Kain could not move objects without direct contact, yet could with blood. Then, when he got telekinesis for great distances, his blood drain distance did not increase, which indicates that they are separate abilities. Incidentally, his blood abilities are likely too short ranged to be of much use here.
Samus is shooting around in the Speed Booster, i.e: supersonic speeds. Her reactions are therefor infinitely better than Kain's. If Kain uses TK first, he'll have to let go before teleporting, and then Samus has Space Jumped out of the way or gone into Morph Ball. Show what? Space Jump is a mid air ability and I've showed you Samus shooting in mid air multiple times. All the evidence points to Kain getting vaporized before he can move.
Yes, there is. How about we go through it more slowly.
http://metroid-database.com/manga/o...1_ch003_016.png
Panel 1- The little girl is surrounded by five Space Pirates, all pointing their weapons at her.
Panel 2- One Pirate is being a bit of a jerk. No Samus.
Panel 3- The weapon opens and flashes, indicating that it's about to fire. Still no Samus.
Panel 4- Kreatz, the Elf guy and Samus' ally, panics.
Panels 5 and 6- Reactions by various.
http://metroid-database.com/manga/o...1_ch003_017.png
Panel 1- Suddenly Samus! She blocks all the shots and reflects them. From multiple sides, even.
Panel 2- Confused Pirate. When he fired, the was a little girl there, so why are the beams bouncing everywhere? Just note that he doesn't know why the beams were reflected, which indicates he didn't see Samus appear there before the shots, which would also be before the smoke.
Panel 3- Pirates finally realize there is someone else there. Note in particular that they go from "who's there?" to "what are you?" That implies that whatever happened is beyond normal in some way. No wonder.
Panel 4- Samus begins to arrest everyone involved.
http://metroid-database.com/manga/o...1_ch003_018.png
Panel 1- Space Pirates begin panicking.
Panel 2- Kreatz, Samus' ally, "Eh. H-huh. When did Samus...?" Note that he's looking behind him, because that's where Samus was. He didn't notice when Samus moved from behind him, crossing hundreds of feet in the direction he was looking at the time. Smoke doesn't cover that.
Panels 3, 4, and 5- Pirate leader demonstrates his intelligence, then Samus prepares to ruin the week of everyone present.
What , your trying to claim that just because in-game Gorea moved her slowly side to side its the same as being thrown and therefore she does not suffer from any intertia and her limbs do not roll?
As I said before, projectile. I like how you dodged the point, your only argument for Samus' suit blocking anything is because a projectile actually hit it, blood shower hits nothing so your talking a load of nonsense again. But we dont know they work on vampires, maybe ill do a "scenario" and make a random doubt with lack of logic.
Your talking about things you dont know or understand, magnus is old news to Kain whos millenia older and "extremely weak" is unfounded, they simply burn like anyone else.
They just have different death animations, I am beginning to wonder if it even matters what weapons you use? do tin bots always melt? Most of these are in-game death animations still, its not like a cutscene where you can see how things actually affect people. They also look inconsistent, from melting to turning to dust etc.
Well clearly there is distance, his equipment goes from the ground to his hand for example, otherwise why would he use TK? or his "will" to manipulate objects?
I remember how it requires you to be on the ground oh and she needs to activate it first and its just a dash...its not her regular movement, dashing has no sense of "reaction", you cant use a speed feat, no matter how poor your in-game evidence is as reaction time. Kinetic shackles says no, but if he tosses he rin the air, he has all the time it takes for her to fall which is a hell of a lot for Kain to slice her in half as she falls through the air. None of the evidence points to that, I am not sure slow moving little plasma blasts would vaporize anyone of Kains durability or speed.
How the hell are you getting "hundreds of feet" for that distance? Second, we dont see Samus' actions after scan 1, we dont know what shes doing between that and scan 3. Also in the last one, those pirates are percieving her pretty fine, it looks to me like your overhyping whats pretty much a major surprise block. Theres also the fact that she somehow put on her suit in what your claiming to be fractions of a second?
After reading through the thread... well, reading about five lines.. Kain's only chance of winning is if his powers get through her suit and tech and if he can kill her with it. If he can, it becomes a match of 'can he tag her/long enough to kill' and 'can he avoid her attacks. Probably 6/10 Samus.
However if he cant get past her suit then there's not much he can do.
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What, you're trying to claim that just because Kain moved people slowly it's not the same as being thrown by Gorea? See, your problem here is that Gorea is moving Samus at the same speed Kain's TK throw operates, so there's really no difference between them. You're suggesting that Kain could make her ragdoll when the evidence shows the opposite. Samus will end up vaporizing Kain before he can move, sorry.
There is logical reason for doubt, what with the suit actually having supernatural resistance. Last I checked, telepathy wasn't a projectile and Samus had the option to block that. What are blood shower's actual feats that suggest it could do what you claim? Also, what's it's range? Again, it won't help if Samus shoots him from too far away. And heck, it takes so long Samus will have killed him before it finishes.
So are you saying that Kain's heat resistance has increased since he fought Magnus? Because if that's what you're claim, you will need evidence for it. As it stands, I seem to understand better than you that lack of heat resistance = death by vaporization before he can move.
Are you going to argue against scripted events now? And how in the world did you get the idea that it doesn't matter what weapon you use from the clips I provided? I specifically showed you that each weapon causes a different death animation if you need a reminder:
Power Beam/Missile- Fly back and collapse, then fade.
Wave beam- Enveloped in electricity and collapse, then fade.
Their normal death animation is simply falling apart. They melt only when you use the plasma beam or its upgrade, the nova beam. So it matters a lot which weapon you use, as each has different scripted death animations.
You mean when he picks up weapons? I'll grant you that one, but it was still far too short ranged to be useful, and again did not increase his blood drain range when he got TK. They are separate abilities.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. Yes, the Speed Booster is just a dash she needs to activate, but I'm not saying she'll be using it. I'm that that she needs to have incredible reaction to be able to use it well, since it moves at supersoinc speeds. She is able to stop on a dime and even reacts when she hits an incline to continue running, which is far beyond human reactions. Actually, it's not unlike you and the dimensional teleport react feat, the difference here being Samus is required by plot to use the shinespark. You haven't proved the kinetic shackles yet, and are you forgetting that Samus can fly or turn into the morphball to get away from them? And really, I am not sure how slow moving heat vulnerable Kain would ever survive a brush with the plasma beam or screw attack. (You still haven't given any evidence that Kain has heat resistance, and he has no movement speed feats good enough to escape before getting vaporized.)
Did you even look at the scan? They're using binoculars to even see clearly, it's certainly more than a hundred feet. We know Samus didn't move between scan 1 and 3 primarily because Kreatz would have seen her if she was moving slowly enough to be seen across that distance. Again, the fact that she moved in front of his field of vision without being seen indicates it was extremely fast, and again she got between that girl and the guns just as the guns fired. You don't think Samus can get into a suit that responds to her thoughts quickly?
http://metroid-database.com/manga/o...1_ch002_058.png
Panel 1- The Iono Feria pull weapons out of nowhere.
Panel 2- Gray Voice and Mother Brain comment on this.
Panel 3- One of the Iono Feria fires its weapon.
Panel 4- The blast is about to hit Gray Voice.
Panel 5- Samus begins moving at this point, as the suit forms.
http://metroid-database.com/manga/o...1_ch002_059.png
Panel 1- By the time the blast hits the rock behind them, Samus has already moved Gray Voice some distance away.
Panel 2- Old Bird comments.
Panel 3- Samus and Gray Voice silhouetted by the moon.
Panel 4- Samus lands.
There, a clear instance of Samus putting on her suit and moving in front of a weapon after it has already been fired. The previous feat was just from a longer distance. Samus blitzes Kain to ashes.
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Last edited by The Scenario on Dec 10th, 2011 at 04:15 AM
Theres too much activity atm, so ill put this argumet on hold until some of the other threads have cleared up, even I cannot waste too much time on KMC.
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such reaching...
Dec 1st, 2011 11:10 AM
