Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Interchangeable terms. Nice.
So universal Eternity/Infinity defeated Magus after he struggled with Warlock across the Multiverse,
then apparently the Multiverse exploded since reality exploded at the farthest edges of the Multiverse and the 616 reality was part of this reality ending,
then Warlock fixed it all with a snap.
That about right for ya?
We only disagree in terms of whether Eternity/Infinity were multiversal or not.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
From where everyone stands they're right, so whatever on the location of the stance.
Just don't try and come at me like your comprehension level is any where above mine.
From where I stand it's quite simple too, but I don't call you an idiot for not getting it.
This debate is quickly devolving into a first grade level discussion more like it.
There ya go, so when it suits you a term has two meanings, but when it does not, the term is absolute.
Cool beans.
Anyway, this circle has now got me hungry for my burger and soda within my lunch box,
so, I'll leave you to differentiating a term, like:
There's A car, and there's The car, somehow means different amounts of cars. lol
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
perhaps that was the reason she was going to be trouble, but it has nothing to do with the inferred power she possessed--namely, power that was enough to give lt pause. there was no noticeable difference in the diffidence shown eresh by lt when compared with that shown to adam. at best, we can say he considered both something very significant. starbrand was also clearly multiversal--a better showing scope-wise than the ig had unless we take into account the black october nonsense.....
the lack of experience by thanos is a bit of a cop-out imo. and while it's true stuggling over a sun is dumb as sh!t, lt's ultimate attack has been shown to be making a sun go supernova, so, meh. it did show their comparative levels however, as viewed by the author--which was in accordance with what was previously shown. that makes 2 pieces of evidence suggesting they WERE peers, vs none that suggest thanos was so much greater. did thanos become more powerful as time went by? it's possible i guess. what proof is there to make said assumption? or was it posted already and i just need to read back some pages?
anyway, i think it's mostly impossible to compare the 2 because clearly there was some form of difference of opinion when it came to thanos within the ranks of marvel. the quasar camp didn't think as highly of him as others did. that doesn't make their opinion less accurate--we just use a different measuring stick imho.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Hey there Leo, curious as to how you saw the Starbrand as "multiversal."
When it's greatest feat is a global one.
That aside, Erishkigel was a complete no body before entering the Nexus.
She expended vast amounts of energy to open a dimensional portal,
something Thor does for lulz.
Maelstrom (amped and merged with Oblivion) got stalemated by an Infinity powered Quasar.
Maelstrom never exercised universal influence and in fact, needed circumstances to do so.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
well the sb was the greatest power in the new uni, and it retained its powers here. def implies multiversal regardless of how you define multiverse imo.
and i agree with some of your opinion regarding her--she was really not all that impressive in some regards--i DO think you need to take into account the way the editorial people of quasar viewed power in general. it was in quasar where 'ultimate speed' was barely the speed of light don't forget. i think the only really telling point of power for her was lt himself. imo, no one really demonstrated massive power in the quasar series. even when quasar fought anomaly it was a black hole that was the major crisis. meaningless, until one realizes that said black hole couldn't be closed by the collection of celestials or the other cosmics..... so, not just a 'normal' black hole, clearly. and it was going to devour a universe WITH thanos in it. could be have resisted it? maybe, but it was clearly intended to be a threat on par with what thanos was--at least in the eyes of the people at quasar imo.
i don't think it a coincidence that both malestrom and eresh appeared in quasar, were intended to be uber cosmic threat and that neither have the uber feats thanos has. i don't think that necessarily devalues them--it was just the way relative power was expressed by different people at marvel. that's why i don't the best way to compare these 3 is via feats. we saw each in comparison to lt, and we saw thanos and mal in relation to each other. based on those comparisons and ONLY those, they were all relatively close imo.
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Last edited by leonidas on Apr 19th, 2014 at 11:35 PM
"this universe" is interchangeably with the multiverse??
First off, do you agree or disagree that they were universal? Seems to me that your basis regarding Eternity/Infinity being multiversal in IG and IW is.....nothing.
Not how it works. The writer would either portray both of them universal or both of them multiversal. It wouldn't make sense for w universal powers to defeat a casual multiversal power. In which case, the stronger evidence suggests that they were universal, imo.
Note: Im not even posting the scans where Eternity is regarded as embodying "the" universe, im only posting those which outright say "this" or "that" universe. So let's settle this.
Infinity War:
Eternity...the embodiment of all there is in this universe:
If Eternity was really supposed to be the embodiment of the multiverse (as if literally everything poiting towards it being universal, isn't enough) then why the hell did Agamotto reply "your universe not mine" when Strange said that the whole universe is in danger as a result of Eternity being catatonic? Because according to you, Agamotto's pocket realm should be part of Eternity, since Eternity is the embodiment of the multiverse, right?
Are you kidding me? "when it suits me"? I explained exactly why in the Warlock Chronicles scans it refers to the multiverse. Read carefully next time.
Given that it wasn't preceded by "a" or "an" it may refer to, either a universe or a multiverse. We determine which by knowing the context of the story, which tells us that it refers to the multiverse not the universe.
Does that explanation sound to you like im picking the definition based on when "it suits me"?
Also, in the IW "an actuality" was used several times to refer to individual realities. Two examples:
Well, the fact that she wanted to exploit the nexus is part of the reason of why she gave LT pause. Otherwise, she was merely a potential peer to the abstracts, not more. Also, Starbrand being multiversal contradicts everything in the story. Ereshkigal sought a nexus and the congress to affect the multiverse. Why go through all this trouble if she could've just done it on her own? .....it doesn't make sense. Im sure you'll agree on that one.
While Quasar #24 was happening, the IG saga had just begun (the main arc, i mean). He only previously had experience with it in a few issues of Silver Surfer and an issue of Cloak and Dagger prior to the IG arc. So he was inexperienced. Possibly, yeah. Gruenwald didn't see Thanos as being that high in the cosmic hierarchy (along with his inexperience). And especially considering that by the time of Quasar #24, Thanos hadn't fought any abstracts, or usurped Eternity. So there's that as well.
Yet Thanos had the IG longer than Erishkigal had the Starbrand. She literally acquired it one issue prior and then went on her little rampage.
Also, she didn't care much for the Nexus Beings telling them to join her or get out the way. She later incinerated those that didn't submit with a gesture.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
^ Im not purposely ignoring anything, im merely looking at the whole picture.
But if im "purposely ignoring" that Moon Knight statement, then i can likewise say that you're "purposely ignoring" the Maelstrom encounter by saying it was PIS or something.
.....
I ask you if you still disagree that they're multiversal, you reply by "yea" which suggests that you still think they're multiversal (without any counters, not that there is one). And then go on and post a quote where you agree that they are universal versions? What the hell am i missing here?
Don't see the relevance of this.
Not sure what's the point of this. We know that the congress members are well below the abstracts, because they're their puppets. So Ereshkigal obliterating a group of them doesn't sound that impressive. She also evidently cared since she recruited some of them to combine with their energies. If her power dwarfed theirs, she would have obliterated all of them, regardless whether they were willing to join her or not.
Last edited by operator616 on Apr 20th, 2014 at 12:11 AM
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
well, just because the sb was multiversal doesn't necessarily mean she could affect the entire mutliverse at once. i don't think that type of power has ever been demonstrated by anyone, ever in marvel. we know though that her power WOULD have affected all those other universes, again supporting the notion of the multiversal nature of her power. the scope is certainly multiversal, the depth of her power is a question however and again, to that point, i think we only have her interaction with lt to use as a clue and to me, it was clearly intimated that, despite her showings feat-wise, she was a very serious threat in and of herself. lt only took action because of her intent, but the reason for his intervention doesn't reflect on her personal power. by that i mean even if she was his EQUAL in power, but meant no harm, lt would have ignored her. that he intervened and showed some concern about his ability to dispatch her easily is the best gauge of her power. imo.
you and mrm may be right about his inexperience playing a role. imo it is the lesser role though and it had more to do with the view taken of each character by the people at quasar.
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Last edited by leonidas on Apr 20th, 2014 at 12:12 AM
The point is, she could have easily killed them all. The only reason she didn't kill the rest is because they joined her willingly. She saw herself as a multiversal liberator, freeing the "little guy" from the control of uncaring omnipotents. She even offered to take Kayla along with her but Kayla refused.
And like you say, those Congress Members weren't abstract they were barely herald level since Surfer dispatched one of them on his way to the Nexus. So their power input couldn't have been anything significant.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Actually, that's what I'm definitely doing.
If you were looking at the big picture then you would consider the other factors,
like residual effects across all Time due to the Infinity War.
When there is only one possible way that could've happened.
... Nothing happened in the Maelstrom scene. He was obliterated, then re-appeared and left.
Maelstrom added that Thanos was probably not adept with the IG. (true, he had just got it)
He also suggested that Thanos was more powerful than he.
Thanos was not allowed to wipe the floor with Maelstrom cause that was Quasar's job,
in his Quasar book,
where Quasar is the hero.
You're missing that I'm putting it in your perspective.
In mine, the reason ET/IN popped up at the edge of the Multiverse,
is cause all of space-time joined to take down Magus.
Magus was unbalanced at this point due to the struggle,
this is why Warlock waited for the right moment to unleash the power of all on his ass.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
But my friend, the best feat it has (which is within the New Uni, was global.
Erishkigel's best feat outside the Nexus was killing an already dying Man-Thing.
That's a very sensible post, it can't be denied. I agree with most of it.
Although I don't think they were close: IG and the others that is.
Also, the Quasar drama was not recognized by any other title that I know of.
So the universe Thanos was in getting taken by that black hole is like a monkey wrench of senselessness. (not you the book)
Uatu never mentioned any of that during the Thanos drama and he was supposedly at both sides.
At-least Thanos made a cameo in the Quasar book.
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Last edited by Mr Master on Apr 20th, 2014 at 01:21 AM
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Zop, without the Congress, Erishkigel wasn't accomplishing anything.
Regardless of any shenanigans going on this was literally stated.
That was integral to her plan. It wasn't just "cosmic Mandela" aspirations.
Also, without the Nexus, she wasn't going to ever be "multiversal."
Since she never displayed any reason for me to think she was "universal," she wasn't that either.
For whatever stupid reason, once in the Nexus, everything changed. Kinda funny if you ask me.
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Apr 19th, 2014 10:27 PM
... True that brother Leo. I been on that side of the veil, so I understand. 
... Nothing happened in the Maelstrom scene. He was obliterated, then re-appeared and left. 
