I just don't get how's that supposed to be destroying an entire universe instantly. Warlock destroyed that timeline indirectly rather than directly like you're saying.
Warlock merely erased Magus' existence, and thus the universe destroyed and recreated itself without Magus. We see Warlock absorbing his future self which will become the Magus, we see Magus fade, and his timeline. Warlock never used the SG to directly destroy the universe. Hell, Thanos even mentioned that like all the others, Warlock was at the very eye of the explosive time reshuffling. Which would indicate that he didn't cause it to begin with.
Not to mention Thanos needed the soul gem along with the other 5 gems to destroy all the stars in the universe (and the interesting thing is, those Warlock issues, where he supposedly destroyed and recreated the entire universe, served as a prelude to the story where Thanos intended to destroy all the stars by gaining all the other gems, BOTH of which are written by Starlin).
Here's Starlin (in Marvel Two-in-One Annual #2, little after Warlock #11) confirming that the soul gem couldn't destroy all the stars in the universe, merely Earth's star:
But somehow it's supposed to be able to destroy + recreate the universe instantly? Even though it wasn't even shown on panel that Warlock destroyed it directly (because that scan merely shows Warlock using the soul gem on his future self as opposed to him channeling the SG energies to destroy the universe)? And Thanos saying that Warlock was merely observing like all others instead of causing it??
Btw, regarding Warlock's potential. He became more powerful with it in Incredible Hulk #178. For example, an amped CE Reed (brute form) was able to laugh off Warlock's Soul Gem attack in Warlock #6. And Warlock was stalemating Man-Beast. Both of those instances happened when Warlock was using the gem to its full capabilities. After he got the power up, he easily dealt with Man-Beast. And in Strange Tales #178 (after hulk #178) he realized that there is more to the SG than he was utilizing
Either way though, Warlock #4 (same series where he supposedly destroyed a universe and recreated it) confirms that the gem's power is exhaustible (not infinite) and that he is fatigued:
Shalla Bal did die in Marvel Graphic Novel #71 (Homecoming). Which was directly before SS & Warlock: Resurrection mini series. So in the 1st issue of that mini Warlock reveals to Surfer that there is a way to bring back Shalla Bal (because her death wasn't conventional but rather metaphysical). They bring her body back, but there was no soul in it, so they journey into Hades, Mephisto's realm, to retrieve it. Warlock defeats Mephisto, and Shalla Bal gets her soul back. There wasn't any trickery on Mephisto's part in that regard.
If anything, in Warlock Chronicles #3 Starlin references and confirms Warlock's win over Mephisto, and also has Warlock using the SG to knock Mephisto into the ground:
Talk about his defeat to heroes though. Thor defeated him on two occasions (Thor #180-181, Thor's enlarging his soul's goodness apparently defeats Mephisto; Thor #204-205, Thor after fighting Mephisto's minions for 2 hours no less outright defeats Mephisto in a battle by sealing him under a larva pit) and in Thor #310 Mephisto admits that he cannot harm Thor in his godly form, only if he transforms into Donald Blake.
Heck, in that same issue Mephisto didn't want to fight Thor since he admitted it'd last for all eternity (which proves just how much Thor is a match for Mephisto). All this in his own realm and confirmed by secondary evidence.
Meh, on other occasions (like Thor Annual #13) Mephisto is portrayed being well above Thor (that's not even getting to his encounter with Galactus and comparing it to his defeats with Thor). But point is, his portrayals are very inconsistent even in his own realm. In the Resurrection mini, he was portrayed as being above Surfer + IW. But that's as much as i can tell to determine how much of an uber feat defeating Mephisto in his own realm is.
Last edited by operator616 on Jul 21st, 2014 at 06:18 PM
So, I'm not getting how/why killing Warlock (while withIN reality) would destroy/remake an entire Universe.
Also, what Thanos said does not take away from the possibility the SG remade reality imo.
They were at ground zero basically, so for whatever silly reason this allowed them to remember.
You know, I get how adrenaline runs through us when we accomplish something
or when we believe ourselves kings for a moment even in a delusional state,
but, there's no need for this gorilla pumping chest bravado. It's what makes members get nasty.
Just my two cents ... or, I dig the dirt sometimes so wuteva.
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Last edited by Mr Master on Jul 21st, 2014 at 08:05 PM
You ignored my most important point. And before i counter your post, consider this:
1. That Warlock story was a prelude to Starlin's Thanos story-line where Thanos was going to wipe out all the stars of the universe. So Starlin knew while writing Warlock #11 that Thanos needed all the gems to actually destroy all the stars. So the soul gem alone couldn't have done something like that on its own. He even references in Warlock #11 (where the universe was remade) Thanos' stellar genocide plan:
So why would Starlin have SG destroy AND recreate the universe in an instant? This absolutely makes no sense.
2. The soul gem's power was nowhere near universe busting/remaking, even after Warlock's Incredible Hulk #178 power up. So im not sure why it suddenly becomes a casual universal remaker.
that also puts yet another question mark on this feat.
And onto the actual feat; Yeah, you're right about Warlock making two separate actions, but that doesn't matter at all.
Because the 1st action was to erase Magus from existence, while the 2nd one was to prevent himself from evolving into Magus. Both of those actions have 1 goal in common: To erase Magus from existence. So when the two actions are complete the universe re-creates itself without Magus' taint like the scan says. It recreated itself (That's what the official handbook says) presumably since Magus has had influence over many worlds of the universe. When you erase someone with influence out of existence (and by that i mean, the person and all his/her actions), there will be gaps in the fabric of reality, so the universe has to recreate itself to adapt to those changes.
Btw, why would Warlock destroy and recreate the universe without Magus if he just erased him from existence? That doesn't make sense. The fact that the universe got recreated right after Warlock erased Magus completely (after absorbing his future self, preventing any chance of Magus being created) is no coincidence.
that's not even mentioning that Warlock never used the SG to directly destroy/recreate the universe.
Not sure why you got upset over that.
And not even sure why is it "delusional" state... because what i posted are facts.
That's only part of the reason. And even if you're wondering why would the universe recreate by itself because of Magus, you should be also wondering why would Warlock recreate the universe without Magus if he had already erased Magus...
There's also this, this is the 2nd time you ignore this point:
There's no doubt in my mind that the SG didn't destroy/recreate the universe.
Either way though. That got retconned. Since the Warlock story regarded Magus and Warlock as the same being. Later it was established that they are alternate versions, and that their realities are divergent. Which is why in Infinity War, Thanos says to Magus: Your timeline was destroyed.
In both scenarious though, Magus being erased out of existence is the cause of the universe/timeline getting destroyed.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Ya, I already posted, but it seems while I was writing you were way ahead of me.
Yea, it doesn't make sense and I don't think I said that.
I said Walock erased Magus' kismet trail therefore erasing "Present" Magus. (fades in-front of Present Thanos)
Then Warlock erases hits his own Soul to erase Magus all together.
My thing was, that the universe blew up and remade itself due to this, which is dumb imo.
1000 planets? meh.
... "delusional" state of informational supremacy.
You come at posters like they're deliberately spewing fallacious info, and you always know better:
... "so much for" ... "supposed" ... I wasn't even debating, and you wasn't in the thread,
so you pop up, and come at me with this aggression like I offended you personally with my post.
This is why posters get irritated then resort to snapping at you, even kmc veterans.
KMC Community Forums
Jul 20th, 2014 07:34 PM
I wasn't even debating, and you wasn't in the thread,
Thanos couldn't do it, we know that.
