Except, you openly admitted you're a troll and your entire argument is just a baseless claim of Meld, where Kyle risks an amputation because he knows there's three people there next to him. The same three people that weren't even a match for Caedus, collectively.
Also, calling you a troll is apparently an insult. Where are you from, tumblr?
If Trebor gets the drop on him and Dooku's unready, sure. There's a difference between leaving yourself exposed while you attack someone, and then getting nearly amputated and literally standing around and having someone jump at you with an activated lightsaber.
I'd like to think I'm a bit better than that. DMB seems to be someone that would be on the receiving end of a glory hole for a good Bane, feat. I don't think I'd ever do anything that drastic...
I don't like the word troll and I certainly wouldn't consider myself one, I simply have controversial views regarding many versus threads that have been disputed for the best part of ten years. I am not so unaware of myself, to know that I likely have the most controversial views on this board, so that if I truly wen't out of my way to force 'top tens' down other peoples throats, most users would start to think that LeGend is moderate in comparison. Although I do enjoy debating, which is what this board is designed for, I'm not so arrogant to believe that my opinions are indisputable facts of canon. I can admit I might be wrong on a subject, but would also prefer to be proven wrong.
Well perhaps if you actually read my post, before hitting the reply button, you might discover that my standpoint doesn't rest entirely on 'Meld', and that the probability of the team using such a technique is not baseless, rather that it's more than likely. This is adhered to by several premises:
Premise 1: Because of it's ease in learning, and it's effectivity in small groups, the battle meld technique was very popular among members of the New Jedi Order. It is used in too many missions to reference, and would be especially helpful in duel with Caedus. There doesn't seem to be a reason why they wouldn't have used it.
Premise 2: The duel itself is written almost entirely from the perspective of Jacen, and there is even passage where Solo - within his own thoughts - refers to himself in the first person. With that in mind, there naturally no mention of a Force meld, because the team in question aren't dictating the narrative and the reader is unaware of their thoughts and perspectives. There is only one point in that entire fight, where the narrator is speaking from someone other than Jacen's viewpoint. A small section which includes the onlooking perspective of Seha Dorvald, who was watching the fight from a safe distance. These were her thoughts regarding the ensuing battle :
In particular, the young Jedi notes how well choreographed the fight was. Like it had been planned for years. Now the team in question aren't a regular fixture with the synergy of Anakin and Obi Wan, nor do they possess a Force-bond formed through years of brotherly apprenticeship. What they do have on the other hand, is a technique that might be able to produce similar results, and can merge their collective minds in to one with greatly enhanced team work.
Premise 3: In short; Jacen notes that his failure to amputate Katarn was due to the teams coordination. I see no reason to contradict him on this particular matter.
I've already this refuted point with every dialect possible. It would be much appreciated if you went back and addressed those refutations in a proper manner.
Oh really? I find that sentiment rather ironic, especially coming from someone who not long since complained about using "Caedus' subjective opinion" on the matter. That is fine of course, but to avoid being a bit of a hypocrite, I expect you'll also agree that Katarn is a valid threat to Jacen, rather than someone who get's amputated after ten seconds of battle, without a team of people who aren't "even a collective match for Caedus" to save him. Your choice
Whatever. Back to the argument?
This statement right here should inspire it's own thread and a healthy set of memes to go with it. I mean... seriously? You're now willing to argue that the 80 year old Sith Lord was unprepared for a Jedi attacker in the middle of some massive battlefield? And that he would have been killed if it weren't for Jango Fett's quickdraw? The same Sith Lord who had triumphed on Galidraan against the Mandalorians? The same Sith Lord who successfully warded off Ventress and two of her companions, after being unexpectedly woken up from a night's sleep? Really? Well, let me suggest a more logical alternative. Dooku has the ability use Force sense, an abilty of which you can find repeated explanations on the pervious pages. Dooku was gazing upon a Warzone containing an excessive amount of Jedi hostiles, ergo, Dooku is likely using his abilties to sense people and actions through the Force. Dooku know's that Jango Fett is behind him, who will protect the wealthy Count from a lightsaber wielding dinosaur at almost all costs. Dooku can also use the Force to predict the exact moment when Jango will draw out his blaster, killing his assailant.
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Last edited by Ziggystardust on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 12:57 AM
None of those quotes have to be taken at face value. And the Insider one isn't Canon, whicih is the only one that states Dooku would have possibly been killed.
And here we have the single dominant error that appears in every bit of "reasoning" you're trying to perform here. Shall I point out, why? I just need three quotes of Chris Cherasi to do it:
"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films."
The only absolutes in SW canon do appear in the movies with the exception of words coming from Lucas himself. Anything else is not absolute by the very definition of the LFL canon policy. That starts with with the novelizations and goes down to the computer games.
"The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play."
Another fact: All sources, Lucas words and the movies excepted, contain interpretation and speculation. By that very line of thought every bit of information (notice: information is not equal to "fact") spawning in the additional source-material (read: everything except the movies and Lucas own words) can be questioned and - as a consequence of that fact - be argued.
"The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.'"
And this nails the coffin of your blind faith in written words appearing in the source material. You can quote anything you want - in the end [as far as stuff depicted in the movies and Lucas words aren't concerned] every single word produced in the SW fiction spawns from an interpretation of events happening in the "real" SW universe that the author of said fiction (read: the narrator of the story) presents to the reader. Non of it can be labeled "truth".
At the end of the day, serisouly? Any 3rd party source stating Trebor would have killed Dooku, is about as reliable as the fact files stating that Yoda and Dooku were evenly matched in the Force, or that Bane has more knowledge and Mastery of the Darkside than good ol Vitiate. As part of LFL house policy, they're not something that have to be taken at face value:
This is still what I think of this argument :
(please log in to view the image)
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Last edited by Ziggystardust on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 01:59 AM
Except those sources don't really branch away from the movies at all, just saying. It says what could have happened, yet didn't, that's it. At any rate, don't see why it's a big deal.
Put simply, had Kyle been fighting Caedus alone he wouldn't have lost a leg in the first 15 seconds because he wouldn't have thrown that kick to begin with.
Jul 22nd, 2016 09:14 PM
