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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Showdown of the Ages - Bartmeister and gang vs Ellimist and friends


Showdown of the Ages - Bartmeister and gang vs Ellimist and friends
Started by: Azronger

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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

I think he was referring to something else.


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Old Post Feb 26th, 2018 08:25 PM
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The Ellimist
The Shadow

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


 

*shrug*


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Old Post Feb 26th, 2018 08:30 PM
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JKBart
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Registered: Aug 2015
Location: Poland

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bump, we're waiting for you
or u can just concede shimrra solos


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They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."

Old Post Mar 3rd, 2018 12:44 PM
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JKBart
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Registered: Aug 2015
Location: Poland

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shimrra solos


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They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."

Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 10:50 PM
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The Ellimist
The Shadow

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


 

Nah


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 10:53 PM
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JKBart
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Registered: Aug 2015
Location: Poland

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so, seems like shimrra does indeed solo smile


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They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."

Old Post Mar 11th, 2018 03:26 PM
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SheGotHerOwn
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Registered: Mar 2018
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this one is done, gg

Old Post Mar 11th, 2018 03:29 PM
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FreshestSlice
Eternal Commander

Registered: May 2014
Location:


 

Elm and friends got blitzed, lel.

Old Post Mar 12th, 2018 09:01 PM
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MythLord
Diamond

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Homeworld


 

wat a cute sig


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Old Post Mar 13th, 2018 06:11 AM
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The Ellimist
The Shadow

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


 

Alright, just for fun. smile

Jack himself says that Wyyrlok holds his own against Krayt Reborn. Yet Wyyrlok was still weaker than Vong Krayt, whose powers were "outshone" by Muur:

quote:
On Had Abbadon, in the Deep Core, Krayt confronted Skywalker a second time. But a third Force-user possessed powers that outshone them both. Karness Muur, an ancient Sith spirit, blasted Krayt with overpowering energy, sending him over a cliff to the rocks below. - Insider 113


Now ILS can do as much mental contortion that he wants to pretend that "has powers" really means the ability to summon rakghouls (even though that doesn't factor into the context stated in the next sentence at all) or light up Christmas trees, but the most obvious and reasonable interpretation is that Muur's Force powers are greater than Vong Krayt's, especially given:

quote:
But Emperor Krayt might no longer be the most powerful Sith lord in the galaxy. Will Cade and Celeste have another Sith to defeat... or join?


Ergo, Wyyrlok is weaker than even a weakened spirit Muur, and Krayt Reborn can't be too far above him given his struggles with him. Even a full powered Muur is far weaker than SF Malak, so by power chains he is fodder to someone on the tier of, say, Mace Windu. Even Ulic is a match for a pre-prime Exar, who was not long from being able to one-shot Nadd's spirit, so it's very difficult to believe that spirit Muur > Ulic = Exar Kun.

You might point to Krayt's battle with Abeloth, but we actually don't have solid proof of Krayt's claim that Reborn > Apocalypse, or context behind Krayt's performance (was he amped? etc.). He had been declining in power for decades and there's no reason to think he was suddenly back to full power again. Now you might say that this is straw grasping until one notices that Krayt's Apocalypse performance is vastly out of proportion to his performance in Legacy. If you buy ILS's interpretation of the fight, he would've oneshotted a sub-Muur level fighter (Wyyrlok) instead of struggling with him.

Furthermore, if you actually buy ILS's interpretation that Krayt was about equal to FotJ Luke, he would be disqualified from the match for being more powerful than Yoda. Instead, ILS has to arbitrarily split the difference by arguing that the conclusion of his own point doesn't actually work but somehow half works and he's just powerful enough to win but not powerful enough to violate the criteria. The problem here is that Mace Windu is basically the absolute strongest character you can get in this fight because by RotS he's only barely below Yoda (probably not at all with vaapad vs. dark siders factored in). So the chances that the calculation of Krayt's power just happens to fall between Mace and Yoda is incredibly small. Indeed, given that dark-sider-drawing Mace Windu can defeat Palpatine, it's very possible that no dark sider can fit the "above Mace but below Yoda" criteria.

We get the same issue with Shimrra. If Shimrra really is Luke tier, he's above Yoda and thus disqualified. If he's not, then where is he? Just exactly above Mace and below Yoda? How convenient. In reality though Shimrra fought a really, really tired Luke who had just gone through a literal army of thousands of Vong, each of which is a match for a good padawan. Bart tries to get around this by saying that Luke was still able to fight seven slayers. Uh...yeah...he does this before he fights Shimrra, so he'd be even more tired by then! Regardless, despite not contesting full-power Luke's abilities I kind of want to see Bart's case so I'll ask for it.

Not that it matters, because Shimrra may be resistant to direct TK but what happens when the ground underneath him caves under or he gets blasted away by 5,000 mph winds? We have Galen Marek, whose fighting style hinges on fantastical offensive Force applications. He's Shimrra's worst nightmare.

What can Galen Marek do? How about powering the hyperdrive of a corvette with Force lightning at the beginning of the story when he was ragdoll territory for Vader? How about bringing down an imperial star destroyer? Do you seriously think Shimrra is getting anywhere near him? Can Wyyrlok touch him in feats? No? Does he have any scaling? Oh? So now we're left with Krayt - when has he ever replicated TFU-tier feats?

That is all.


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Last edited by The Ellimist on Apr 29th, 2018 at 03:50 AM

Old Post Apr 29th, 2018 03:41 AM
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ILS
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Registered: Oct 2014
Location: Korriban

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If you wanted an ass whooping you only had to ask.


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Old Post Apr 29th, 2018 11:33 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

damn, did elm solo?

Old Post Apr 29th, 2018 08:52 PM
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DarthSkywalker0
The Insane Jedi Master

Registered: May 2016
Location: United States


 

Krayt Wins.


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"I killed them, of course. Just as I killed the Guardian. Just as I now kill you."

Old Post Apr 29th, 2018 09:33 PM
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RealistRacism
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Registered: Apr 2018
Location: Beautiful Family

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So these forums are still barely alive?

Old Post Apr 30th, 2018 12:25 AM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

Galen just re-directed the falling Star Destroyer - smh


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Old Post Apr 30th, 2018 01:46 PM
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