Superman claimed Bibbo could knock him out without him needing to fake it. We have no proof Bibbo can't knock Superman out, so it must be true.
Essentially your logic here.
Or Spidey compared Cap's punch to an A-bomb. Never tried to punch a town, so we can't assume he can't, amiright?
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Concerning the statements and feats argument. I think this, like many others, is a case by case situation.
For example, if you say statements combined with feats can be accepted, then I can tell you by that logic, Superman has infinite speed(1.https://ibb.co/mvwwLxp 2.https://imgur.com/a/nOeX9), which we know that definitely isnt true
Only considering feats? As many of us pointed out, TOAA, Living Tribunal, The Presence etc, all of them dont have lifting feats that can match Batman's. But does that mean Batman will beat them in a lifting contest? Hell,no
Only considering statements?..... I mean, you have Superman is the most powerful being in the Omniverse..........
All in all, I think look at the character that we argue established history is a relatively good way to gauge.
I dont think Deathstroke has nanosecond level speed or is a legitimate speedster despite some statements and feats supporting that. Because we know this character history, we know that he, by all odds, isnt a speedster like Wonder Woman or Flash
On the other hand, we dont need combat feats for beings, lets say, Imperiex Prime. I mean, I dont think anyone would honestly argue Flash will make Imperiex Prime a statue and use Multiverse-Shattering energy to punch him down. Because we know that Imperiex Prime isnt a character that requires these feats. His established history tells us we should treat him as somethig like TOAA, Living Tribunal, The Presence, not someone like Superman, Batman, Flash, Green Lantern etc
Last edited by qwertyuiop1998 on Feb 7th, 2022 at 07:16 PM
As for me, I wouldn't even say that I place a scant few above Mxy, maybe just ONE. And that's a maybe in a 'well functioning system' which Mxy is not too fond of, if you catch my drift.
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“Perhaps this is the ultimate freedom. The freedom to leave.”
I'd say 2, judging by Superboy Prime's fight with cosmic BWL proving him beating up Mxy wasn't necessarily PIS.
Counting elseworlds, Strange Visitor was definitely > Mxy. He could breach a dimension the latter could not.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
I don”t think Phil is disputing that there are various DC characters above Mxy. The Source, Lucifer, Michael, Perpetua, Manhattan, Mandrakk, Thought Robot, GEB, etc.
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
There isn't a single thread on this entire website where cdtm's posts are worth a "to view post post click here" effort.
At this point I can honestly say it's not even worth putting effort in trying to untie DC's overarching hierarchy, since it's prone to be retconned/changed again.
Maybe in a few years when it all settles down and they either go bankrupt or start writing good stories again.
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“Perhaps this is the ultimate freedom. The freedom to leave.”
WDYM by this? The only statements I referenced in my post were the ones putting LT at the top of the cosmic hierarchy, and the ones implying the cosmic hierarchy is directly correlated to the power of each character. These statements are not contradicted by feats.
Wasn”t sure if you were disagreeing with the validity of the LT scaling or just “feats that contradict statements” in general.
I think something that has to be recognized here is the fallibility of feats, especially when they place “hard limits” on a character that has, on numerous occasions, been given conflicting statements and feats.
For example, some people try to cap LT at “multi-universal” level because he was slain by the Beyonders, who later on were obliterated by a blast equivalent to the destruction of ~40,000 universes. This completely ignores the Beyonder’s slaughtering an “endless number of gods”, including an infinity of Celestials and abstracts, as well as the LT performing better against the Beyonders than said infinity of Celestials/Abstracts. Furthermore, the LT has plenty of statements, feats and scaling from lesser entities/artifacts that would place him in the Multiversal tier, if not well beyond.
EDIT: Regarding the idea of LT scaling above the absolute top end feats of the UN and any characters lesser in the hierarchy: we apply the same logic to the statements placing Perpetua/Manhattan above the top end feats of Mxy (such as WF), despite them similarly having a few “lowball” feats that would place them far below the levels demonstrated by Mxy in WF.
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
Last edited by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ on Feb 7th, 2022 at 09:06 PM
While I think there”s really not much room for debate regarding the Marvel top tier cosmics vs DC’s absolute top tier cosmics such as GEB, Lucifer, Michael, the Source, The Hands, etc, I think there”s room to debate regarding Marvel top tier cosmics vs characters such as Mxy, the Brothers Three, Manhattan, Perpetua etc.
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
This posting shows what level Mxy would likely be within the confines of Marvel space. He most certainly would not be able to challenge TOAA. I believe that he'd be placed within the level of a Cube beings (which have varying degrees of power). LT would actually have authority over him as well. Comparing his high level destructive feats to the multitude of high level destructive feats that exist in Marvel, has at times left me scratching my head. Not all, but some.
Mxy has glaring weaknesses as well. Jor El exploited one, and sent/BFR'd him to a Null, or Void universe. Jor El is a mortal like Reed Richards is when compared to the whacked out cosmic powerhouses out there. Scuse the rant, but I just wanted to share that point of view.
No I'm not forgetting his power stunts. Just saying that tearing the fabric of space would have zero effect on more characters than some might at first expect.
Well, The Hands pretty much oneshotted Perpetua + her armies AND erected the Source Wall with a single “blast of energy” from across the Omniverse, in the form of the cosmic raptor. So the Hands as a group are >>>> Perpetua.
Also, Snyder in an interview states that Perpetua is weaker than the Hands we see in Death Metal individually, because they had followed their function and achieved an “ascended” state as a result, while Perpetua did not.
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
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