Gender: Male Location: Dreaming...Or am I living...
I don't know if It's how i was brought up or what but I cannot see how you can believe that.
Evil is a label. it comes with somethign else.
For instance Person A is evil because he did this thing. So we should put him in jail. We label people evil in order to justify doing something to them that we could not to if we did not consider them evil.
For instance. I shot Person A because he is evil and harmed my family.
Now, I believed that Person A was evil and was able to shoot him. Next think of your closest family memeber or your best friend. Could you kill him or her?? Just walk up to them and shoot them? I hope to God that you could not. Now imagine that someone else did something did something terrible to that same person. now if you had never known that person you would probablly think it justafiable to harm of kill that person. But what if that person was your other best friend, or someone else you knoew really well and knew their potential. Would you stil be able to hurt them?
Now I think that you lable the anoymous person more evil than the best friend who both did the exact same thing. therefore it is justifyed to hurt them. But a third party would lable them both evil or bad. and justify hurting them both with that.
what does acting against a person ahve anything to do with labeling him as 'evil' or not.
what business is it of mine if a person is evil..so long as it doesn't affetc me and those i know. if it IS someone i know....the difference wouldn't be on viewing him as more or less evil, but in changing him, back to NOT being evil..
this 'evil' word is getting to sound superficial by now . you don't even use it that much irl.
no tpt....violence would already mean action. A person doesn't have to act to be evil. Thinking does it.
besides....a person can be evil without being in any way violent, even if acting. manipulative, decieving actions are enough..
again...everyone might do this....and not everyone is evil. So, i should say that i do aprove moral relativism, evil being just a word, not universally fit for any person that ONE thinks is evil, and another does not.
Yup, you don't seem to be talking anything I see as relevant, tpt. What people- who I remind you are fallible- end up labelling other people as, for whatever reason, does not really come into it for me, though I would hope that more intelligent people, as has happened over human history, come closer to recognising what is and is not evil. If one person says a person is evil, and the other says a person is not, either one, or possibly both due to reasoning, are simply wrong. Assuming we are simplifying the situation to extremes.
Incidentally, in your example, no, I would never consider it justified to kill that person except in self-defence or if it was the only way to imminently prevent harm of another.
But like I say, this is massively irrelevant, I do not consider good and evil, conceptually, simply labels we apply. I believe they are objective qualities that we attempt to correctly define with people. That is very hard to do, but some are so obvious that it can be said safely, as has already been discussed.
And I think there are many, MANY people in the world who use the word evil and at no point ever are using it either as a label, or as a means of justifying violence.
Gregory and I are in agreement. We are not claiming that we know what is good and what is evil and that everyone else must conform to us. But we are claming that one CAN be right about these things- it i a truth to be found, and I would hope my ideas are close to the truth.
And this concept can be applied to thoughts as well as actions. Thinking evil thoughts does not necessarily make the person, ultimately, evil. But the thoughts themselves certainly are.
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Last edited by Ushgarak on May 31st, 2004 at 10:27 AM
Ush, again, it is the perspective. You said: ''I would never consider it justified to kill that person except in self-defence or if it was the only way to imminently prevent harm of another''
And thats fine, but in some cultures for example, killing person for being a homosexual for example is their culture, and to them it is not evil, and their would kill 100s of people if they have to who are found to be homosexual, to them homosexuality in itself is an evil act or idea or however else you want to call it, and they would commit some inhumane act to those people. Some do that in the name of religion also, irrlevant, but what im saying is that what is acceptable in one part of the world, it totally isnt in the other. What you call evil, someone in Zambia (i just said that country randomly) will not find it evil.
Thinking about sex in some strictly religious countries is an ''evil'' thinking, drinking somewhere in the world is an evil act. Killing person for their crimes in America's justice system is acceptable...to me, it isnt, and i would, in a sense call that act 'evil'
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في هذا العالم ثلاثة أشخاص أفسدوا البشرية : راعي غنم , طبيب و راكب الجمال , و راكب الجمال هو أسوأ نشال و أسوأ مشعوذ بين الثلاثة
Dexx speaks truly, Lil. I refute that view. it is NOT down to perspective. All perspective can be is in some degreee of correctness in relativity to the truth.
I have rather plainly said this many times now. I reject any idea of moral relativism!
Therefore, those who think killing homosexuals is good, and that homosexuality is wrong, are- I am very certain- WRONG, and I do not give a damn what they erroneously think is right. They are mistaken to call it evil.
I do not know how much more clear I can make my beliefs. My view is that good and evil are concepts that exist independantly of our opinion on them.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on May 31st, 2004 at 04:06 PM
My beliefs are exactly the same Ush. I believe that those people are not doing the right thing, or ''good'' are being ''evil'' or whatever.. it was an example, i thought in a moment.
I understand what you are saying, kinda...i do partaly agree with you, but i dont believe that someone can be labeled as 'pure' evil as Dexx said earlier. I dont believe that one person is just ''evil''. That person maybe evil to a certain group of people, but not to everyone. His ideas maybe evil towards cerain group of people. to those people hes evil, but to someone else he isnt and they would argue differently.
Those people would stand in front of us and tell us that being a homosexual is an evil way to be, and nothing we say or do will convince them otherwise, no matter how 'not evil' that might be.
I dont think we are evil, we just...are. Ive thought about horrible things, ive done some stuff i aint too proud of, but i dont think im evil.
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في هذا العالم ثلاثة أشخاص أفسدوا البشرية : راعي غنم , طبيب و راكب الجمال , و راكب الجمال هو أسوأ نشال و أسوأ مشعوذ بين الثلاثة
As I say, in these theoretical situaitons we are talking in absolutes that do not work in real life. As I also said, these things have a thousand thousand complicatins when practically applied. I don't go around assinging people to good and evil spheres. I certainly would not say an evil act makes you evil, or even thsat it is some sort of balancing act. it is VERY complex. I just simply believe good and evil are independant and objective concepts, not simply relative terms of our own creation.
And I would say that those who preach evil and cannot be talked out of it- whether due to their own beliefs or otherwise- should ideally be stopped.
And I do believe that some of the examples given earlier were SO evil that I can call them so, rather unqualified. There is a point at which it becomes clear, despite these complications.
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
ok, lb..lemme put it this way...do you think jack the ripper was evil? if so, why?
well that explains you not believing in moral relativism. But what sets a concept in our mind, rather than our opinion on them. you're saying that the concept of something exists..out there....outside of our influence. we can have an opinion on it...but without changing it.
i tend to think that a concept of someting is different in everyone's mind. ...that our opinion makes it.
Gender: Male Location: Dreaming...Or am I living...
Ush Makes a very good point but I would like an example where using the word evil was not a label to justify an action. I was using hurt or kill as extremes.
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I dont think philosophy and politics are far apart! What was Plato doing i wander! 
May 30th, 2004 05:12 PM
nicely done Tpt.
. you don't even use it that much irl.
