What would you think of someone, for instance, conscripted to be an army surgeon in WWI? Do you think that choice/motive or action is more important for determining heroism?
This is where we part ways, then. I don't believe that there is a profession that is more "heroic" than any other profession, because I see heroism as a quality of going beyond what was required in your station in life; that is, someone who is "exceedingly" good can qualify as a hero. I don't view the life saving of doctors as meeting this qualification, because they are simply fulfilling the duty of their job. If they really go beyond what is called of them and solve cases that would be given up as impossible, then they may be considered as heroes.
I really see no heroism in being a soldier, at all. They may be sacrificing their lives, but they're just as likely going to be sacrificing the lives of others, who really have no stake in whether you are well off or not. If they do something really beyond the call of duty, then they meet a prerequisite for heroism (in fact, that's what the whole "medal of honor" system is designed to recognize). I would be doubtful of the heroism of someone who kills civilians. Not to mention, there is the aspect of choice; while soldiers are no longer drafted, there is a definite socio-economic impact that "forces" many people into the army.
Its important to note that that isn't the only prerequisite for me, though. Intention plays an important role as well.
Yeah, I think a hero is someone doing something heroic when it is not a usual circumstance.
It would be heroic for a doctor to enter a burning building, pull out a burn victim, and offer first aid.
It would be heroic for a soldier to return to the line of fire to save 3 fallen comrades after the order to "withdraw" had been given...but he would have to save 2 lives in order for that to be heroic or else that is just dumb/disobeying orders.
There was also that one dude from Canada that took over an entire town, by himself, took out the local Gestapo HQ, freed people, etc. Forgot that dude's name but that wasn't all he did. That guy is probably one of the most badass dudes ever to live.
so, if they are conscripted, but ended up spending the War in Britain tending to those injured on the front or doing physical exams for new recruits, ok, I'm with you, not that heroic.
Someone who is in the trenches, dealing with the gangreen that is eating people's feet while they are fighting, and all that other stuff that makes trech warfare so appealing, sure. I'm totally down with calling that person a hero, regardless of whether they want to be there or not.
Are they as heroic as someone who gave up a lucrative practice, volintarily, to help on the front, no.
I can't say I've thought about it much before this instant... I can see it depending hugely on context. Though, in the end, I think it boils down to action, though, to me, the act of becomming a soldier or doctor is the heroic action, not necessarily the idea of going "above and beyond" the normal call of duty.
for instance, while I think scientists are respectable and needed, I don't see them as heroic, even if they do research on deadly diseases or whatever. The scientists that cure aids? sure, heroes.
I don't know that I could explain that in terms of logic though, maybe it isn't consistent, but this is a totally subjective evaluation of things, so
huh
obviously there is no right or wrong answer here, I suppose I just have a more, inclusive?, definition of hero. people can do things, above and beyond, to make them more heroic, or at least, more worth our praise.
For instance, I certainly don't think every soldier deserves a medal just for being a soldier. Though, I do think, just by the nature of them deciding to put themselves in the position they do, they are acting heroic.
there is the socio-economic aspect, and if you want to do a case-by-case analysis of each soldier, sure, not everyone one of them would be a "hero" in my eyes, but the OP seems more about the concept of "soldier" in general, which to me, is a heroic occupation.
I just can not agree, man. I really don't see how some red neck who joins the army because he wants to "shoot up some sand ******* and get some pussy on the side" is "heroic" for doing so.
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"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
Without going into the morality of the war itself and even considering that soldiers make no decisions and are just given orders, I don't think serving in the military and following orders is enough to make anyone a hero, though they might behave heroically in the service and thus become actual heroes.
The few who refused orders to fight a war they thought was immoral while knowing they'd get get thrown in jail on the other hand, I'd call those ones heroes
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Looking at you.
Just because someone is a soldier does mean they are a hero. They could be a hero, but to me fire fighters are heroes; doctors in the emergency room are heroes; good cops are heroes.
So then you do agree that it's the motivation behind an act that defines wither a person is heroic or not, not the act itself.
As long as we're on the same page, here.
__________________
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
In this instance I would agree, which is why I avoided specific references in my comment. It's like the police officer who sodomizes someone in custody with a broomstick. These are morons in hero's clothing.
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KMC Community Forums
Dec 8th, 2010 07:54 AM
preach on brotha man
